WTF: NEW CANADIAN HALIBUT RESTRICTIONS

**Cornfed** · Feb-22-2008, 06:25 AM

I am livid. Gentlemen....I present to you the new Canadian halibut restrictions. This is very bad news for guys fishing out of Neah Bay for halibut, especially the charters. They will lose a lot of money and customer base over this....very unfortunate. They are great group of guys and do not deserve this:

What I don't understand is why are the measures so drastic?

Fishery Notice Reports

Further to Fishery Notice FN0044:

In order to manage within domestic halibut allocations, the following changes
will be implemented in the 2008 recreational fishery:

Coastwide
---------

March 1 to 31: Daily limit of one. Possession limit of 3.
April 1 to May 31: Daily limit of one. Possession limit of 2.
June 1 to Dec 31: Daily limit of two. Possession limit of 2.

Areas 121, 23 and 123
---------------------

April 1 to Dec 31:

" No person shall fish for or retain halibut, rockfish and lingcod in that
portion of Area 121 seaward of a line that begins at 48 degrees 34.000 minutes
north latitude and 125 degrees 17.386 minutes west longitude and continues
southeasterly at a bearing of 116 degrees true to a point at 48 degrees 28.327
minutes north latitude and 125 degrees 01.687 minutes west longitude. [12
nautical mile limit]

April 1/08 to March 31/09:

" Electronic licence conditions will be expanded as follows:
"no person who is not a Canadian resident may fish for or retain halibut under
this licence in Areas 121, 23 and 123."

Variation Order Nos 2008-80 (close time) and 2008-81 (quota).

FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Bill Shaw 250-756-7152 and Gary Logan 604-666-9033

bajadan2000 · Feb-22-2008, 09:58 AM

Thanks for posting the info Tommy, I have plans to fish up there.

The reason for the drastic measure is the International Pacific Halibut Commission (IPHC) reduced the west coast of Canada's halibut allocation by 21%. Canada was forced to make changes. The easy target is the charters from the USA that contribute virtually nothing into the Canadian economy, however, take fish away that count in the Canadian allocation, not the OR-WA allocation, even though the charters run out of WA..

The OR-WA halibut allocation is separate from the Canadian allocation. The IPHC proposed to reduce the OR-WA allocation by about 25% this year, however, at the last meeting to set the allocations, a strong OR-WA group talked them into a much smaller reduction.. Looks like Canada did not do as well in the negotiation.

How does this affect the sport fisherman going out of Neah Bay in July that crosses over and fishs Canada? Not sure I understand all of the changes, is it still 2 fish limit?? I have not charted the closure area, has the area we can fish in changed??

**Cornfed** · Feb-22-2008, 10:16 AM

Ok, I did not realize that the IPHC reduced Canada's allocation by 21%. That is a huge drop in one year. That makes me think that there process for measuring halibut population is not accurate and they are applying a 3 sigma distribution to their data. Is this data online? I need to look. Too much to learn...too little time.

What WA/OR group are you referring to?

If you are like me and you fish around Swiftsure, there is little change. Before June 1st, you can only keep one a day. After June 1st, you can keep 2 a day. the possession limit is no longer 3, only 2. The area that they closed is a spot where nobody fishes anyway so i don't see the point other than this is their government steps to take away fishing rights and it starts with closing down an area that doesn't matter.

You can check out what the Canadians think here:
Sport Fishing BC - HALIBUT REGULATION UPDATE

I tried to reason with them a week ago on that forum, said some things that were misread, so I removed all posts and refuse to post about this subject on that forum. One thing is for sure:they don't like us taking their fish.

The Swiftsure Closure area hasn't changed. For the most part we are unaffected, but the American Charters out of Neah Bay are done for as far as Canadian halibut because now you have to have a hard copy vendor license for 121 and 123. It is too bad. I feel sorry for them. They took so little of the total catch numbers and that is how those guys make their living.

richmake · Feb-22-2008, 10:28 AM

The general public as well as most of the guides in Canada that fish that area were huge in pushing for this...not so much the reduced catch but the reduction of Neah bay fisherman that come across the line to fish...
Whether I agree with this or not is not the question...but I can say this.
The guides out of the Charlottes and Rupert are not legally aloud to fish across the border...The Alaska boy's would have a shit?
This is a huge debate...I'm sure the boy's from Washington wouldn't want the Renfrew/Sooke running into washington to fish each day...it would take away from there allocation as well.
Once again...I'm just pointing out the facts as I see it....

**Cornfed** · Feb-22-2008, 11:00 AM

Canada isn't reducing any Neah Bay fishermen (beside the charters) coming across to fish Neah Bay. All of the American fishermen that fish Swiftsure or area 121 obviously have to go to Canada to get the hard copy license. Why would they go to 123 when 121 is closer? They wouldn't. La Perouse is too far for the weekend warrior. So this "e-license reduction" rule didn't prevent any Yanks from crossing the line to fish halibut.

There are 5 large inspected charter boats/operators that have run trips
out of Neah Bay in Canadian waters on a regular basis the last few years.
Windsong, Sugarfoot, Discovery, Catchalot Charters, and Steeler. The other handful (around 5 +/- 1) runs 6 pack/uninspected charters. Starting in May and June they make halibut trips. When the US is open, they run on the US side. I know because I am out there with them. Did they fish every opener? I don't know but they did fish 3 or 4. When salmon ramps up in July, they mix in those trips and by August they are gone to Westport for tuna and salmon season there. So what are the catch numbers for this group of people? This is the only group these regulations really hurt: this handful of people.

Maybe Canada should put more effort into busting illegal Canadian and American guides....funny how you only hear that the Americans are doing it and there is no proof of them doing it.

I would like to know the real reason behind the regs. Like I said: this is the first step in phasing Americans away from canadian halibut in this area. If the Canadians at renny, sooke, and vic. want to come over....go ahead. It sucks over here. and we have a smaller quota even though the halibut came from the same continental shelf. You have more prime halibut land so you have more halibut. What I don't understand is why Canada can't see that American fishermen pump tons of money into BC economy and know they are pulling the floor out from underneath a handful of charters and affecting Neah Bay's "little" piece of economy. Why not go after the commercial longliners? They have 88% of the TAC!!!

Chad, none of the above statements are directed at you. I'm just calling it how I see it and trying to educate the fellow fishermen. There seems to be a lot of American bashing or sportfishingbc. Do they really hate Americans that much?

marlyn · Feb-22-2008, 11:14 AM

cornfed,fishing and fishermen seem to be the only things that are endangerd anymore.

richmake · Feb-22-2008, 11:34 AM

I for one...wouldn't have a business if it were not for Americans..period...
I'm also a Seahawks season ticket holder so that should tell you something...
Imagine for a minute that i was to advertise that I would run you across the line from Prince Rupert and load you up with Halibut and bring you back. The guy's up in alaska would be pretty upset knowing I was landing part of there allocation in Canada...no revenue or tourism dollars spent in Alaska...they would not be to happy...trust me.
As for Americams guiding illegally in BC...oh ya...it's happening for sure...I see it everyday in the summer.
I just heard yesterday the the RCMP and DFO have just put some inforcement in place over in Tahsis for next year...
The problem has always been proving it but now with the internet and some police investigations...it would be alot easier.
I can tell you this...If i took my jet boat down to washington and ran charters out of one of your rivers all winter or summer...the boy's down there would be furious...

bajadan2000 · Feb-22-2008, 11:39 AM

Tommy, you raise some good points worth discussing. I have a busy work day today so my responses will be limited for a while. Take some time to read the info below. This was a very long document, I edited portions that did not seem importantant to USA fishermen.

To Minister Loyola Hearn, Fisheries and Oceans Canada
January 25, 2008

For all members:

Last week the International Pacific Halibut Commission established its catch limits for the countries (areas) who jointly fish halibut. The net result to Canada further complicates the recreational sectors situation. The Canadian TAC was reduced by 21% which again shrinks the size of the recreational sectors share within the Cdn TAC. (See data in package prepared by DFO)

However, without that yet to be aquired full transfer of allocation, we are in the position of having to consider a package (combination of management measures, transfers of quota, and resolving Neah Bay issue) in order to achieve DFO’s rec fish cap of 12%.
We have also maintained a firm position through out these meetings that no one geographic area should bare any particular pain more than others. The halibut committee has not endorsed the options presented to us here in this package. In fact, DFO and BC continues to press hard for specific measures to eliminate US charter boats fishing in Canadian waters, hence their inclusion of regulations outside of 12 miles in areas 121.
Today we face uncertainty. With the development of a transfer mechanism incomplete, we cannot be assured how much quota can be transferred to the recreational sector. With the main board looming next week we have been asked by DFO to review a series of possible management options and provide them feedback as to which of these options might be least damaging to the recreational fishery.
DFO believes that there are three likely scenarios that may occur. There are three options under each scenario. Each is detailed in the attachment. We are being asked to consult our members to recommend to DFO, which option, under each scenario.
The SFAB executive needs your prompt and thoughtful consideration of these options by end of day Wednesday Jan 30, 2008 in order for your perspectives to be integrated into a final recommendation that would be tabled at the main board on Feb 3. While in the Interim the SFAB Executive, Halibut and Groundfish Committees will still press for the shortfall to be fulfilled by a transfer mechanism.
Thank you and looking forward to receiving your thoughtful advice. Please send all correspondence to Devona Adams. adamsd@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca and cc to Chuck Ashcroft, Chair SFAB Groundfish Shellfish Committee chuckashcroft@telus.net .
On behalf of the SFAB Executive and Halibut Committee,

Marilyn Murphy
Chair

Scenario 1 Savings of 480K lbs
(No fish through transfer mechanism)

•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121(>12nm); and a coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for full season(480K lbs), or
•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121 (>12nm); and a coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for July and August;
and a coastwide annual maximum size limit of 90cm (493K lbs), or
•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121 (>12nm); and a coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for July and August;
and a coastwide annual maximum size limit of 95cm (460K lbs).

Scenario 2 Savings of 380K lbs
(100K lbs through a transfer mechanism )

•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121 (>12nm); and a coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for July and August(360K lbs), or
•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121 (>12nm);; and a daily limit of 1/day for May, June and September; and a coastwideannual maximum size limit of 85cm (366K lbs), or
•Coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for July and August; and a coastwideannual maximum size limit of 95cm (400K lbs).

Scenario 3 Savings of 280K lbs
(200K lbs through a transfer mechanism )

•Coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for July and August(300K lbs), or
•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121 (>12nm); and a coastwideannual maximum size limit of 85cm (272K lbs), or
•Time and Area annual closure for Area 121 (>12nm); and a coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for May, June and September; and a coastwideannual maximum size limit of 90cm (287K lbs), or
•Coastwidedaily limit of 1/day for May, June and September; and a coastwideannual maximum size limit of 85cm (306K lbs).

**Cornfed** · Feb-22-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmake

I for one...wouldn't have a business if it were not for Americans..period...
I'm also a Seahawks season ticket holder so that should tell you something...
Imagine for a minute that i was to advertise that I would run you across the line from Prince Rupert and load you up with Halibut and bring you back. The guy's up in alaska would be pretty upset knowing I was landing part of there allocation in Canada...no revenue or tourism dollars spent in Alaska...they would not be to happy...trust me.
As for Americams guiding illegally in BC...oh ya...it's happening for sure...I see it everyday in the summer.
I just heard yesterday the the RCMP and DFO have just put some inforcement in place over in Tahsis for next year...
The problem has always been proving it but now with the internet and some police investigations...it would be alot easier.
I can tell you this...If i took my jet boat down to washington and ran charters out of one of your rivers all winter or summer...the boy's down there would be furious...

I am glad to hear that the DFO is putting reinforcement in place to stop these illegal guides. I want everyone to follow the rules, and you know the one bad apple can ruin for everyone. I am curious: What are the rules for guiding? Can an American legally guide in Canada, or is all American guiding in Canada banned? Could you please PM me the names of the guides that are from the US? I want to see if I can find these guys online. HOw can an american guide in canada if they can't advertise? Have you seen advertisements? How can you tell the difference between an American that keeps their boat at Port Hardy who comes up every couple weeks with friends and those friends pay for gas and bait (so you see money exchange) and.....the illegal yankee trying to get a buck in canada? I'm not saying there aren't illegal yanks. I am sure there are. LETS SMOKE EM OUT! Do you think I want somebody like that representing me? - the guy that follows the rules.

Here is a thought....how bout we tag every columbian river king that cruises the highway on WCVI. If a Canadian guide or charter catches one that is tagged, they have to release them or eat a fine...PERIOD....unless you come to WA and buy a hardcopy license.

richmake · Feb-22-2008, 12:30 PM

We can do the columbia river thing...only if the Guy's in alaska let all our fish they catch go...this discussion could go on forever...
The fact is...this has been going on for years...
Well, I'm off to work!

**Cornfed** · Feb-22-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmake

We can do the columbia river thing...only if the Guy's in alaska let all our fish they catch go...this discussion could go on forever...
The fact is...this has been going on for years...
Well, I'm off to work!

Exactly...this has been going on for years...how bout live and let live?

The letter posted above makes reference to the "NEAH BAY ISSUE". Now, what exactly is the NEAH BAY ISSUE in the eyes of the Canadians? I don't want some rant either. I want a document stating the issue. If Canada is trying to prevent Americans from coming across to catch halibut...well, i don't think it is going to work. People will still buy online licenses so what actually got solved?

Let me tell you what though....another couple of rules like this coupled with the deteriorating US dollar and a lot of less of our guys are going to head north into Canada in search of fish. And I'm not talking about crossing the border for halibut. I'm talking about Renfrew, Uclulet, Tofino, Nootka, Tahsis, Quantasino, Port Hardy, you name it.

Regarding the closed area...ONCE THEY TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS....YOU NEVER GET THEM BACK! So like the area of 121 that is now closed.....I doubt it will ever open again. Then they will close the next section of 121...and so on.

I hope it never comes to this. How long do you think it will take until Canada is open 5 days a year for halibut like WA is?

Chad - If you are a Seahawks ticket holder you should give a holler when you are down and we will we go hit up a bar. U IRISH?

dss44 · Feb-22-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornfed_King

Canada isn't reducing any Neah Bay fishermen (beside the charters) coming across to fish Neah Bay. All of the American fishermen that fish Swiftsure or area 121 obviously have to go to Canada to get the hard copy license. Why would they go to 123 when 121 is closer? They wouldn't. La Perouse is too far for the weekend warrior. So this "e-license reduction" rule didn't prevent any Yanks from crossing the line to fish halibut.

There are 5 large inspected charter boats/operators that have run trips
out of Neah Bay in Canadian waters on a regular basis the last few years.
Windsong, Sugarfoot, Discovery, Catchalot Charters, and Steeler. The other handful (around 5 +/- 1) runs 6 pack/uninspected charters. Starting in May and June they make halibut trips. When the US is open, they run on the US side. I know because I am out there with them. Did they fish every opener? I don't know but they did fish 3 or 4. When salmon ramps up in July, they mix in those trips and by August they are gone to Westport for tuna and salmon season there. So what are the catch numbers for this group of people? This is the only group these regulations really hurt: this handful of people.

Maybe Canada should put more effort into busting illegal Canadian and American guides....funny how you only hear that the Americans are doing it and there is no proof of them doing it.

I would like to know the real reason behind the regs. Like I said: this is the first step in phasing Americans away from canadian halibut in this area. If the Canadians at renny, sooke, and vic. want to come over....go ahead. It sucks over here. and we have a smaller quota even though the halibut came from the same continental shelf. You have more prime halibut land so you have more halibut. What I don't understand is why Canada can't see that American fishermen pump tons of money into BC economy and know they are pulling the floor out from underneath a handful of charters and affecting Neah Bay's "little" piece of economy. Why not go after the commercial longliners? They have 88% of the TAC!!!

Chad, none of the above statements are directed at you. I'm just calling it how I see it and trying to educate the fellow fishermen. There seems to be a lot of American bashing or sportfishingbc. Do they really hate Americans that much?

Cornfed, when an American fisherman goes out of Neah Bay and comes into Canadian waters to fish our halis, they are pumping 0 dollars into our economy...another reason why the gov't got rid of the charter portion anyway. I guide up here and am fine with the reductions...however, I don't think it was for conservation, so I don't really think it was necessary.