15 day terminal tackle CONFUSION

[jec6446]

Here is my situation. Im booked on the RR3 15 day Loftus and Martin trip this March. This will be my 4th trip on the RR3, but my first time fishing for large tuna. I think I have the rods and reels squared away, but I am extremely overwhelmed with trying to figure out what terminal gear I need to bring because I have never done this type of fishing before. I know the RR3's website has a list of tackle on it, but I have learned from experience that the items suggested are always necessary, and on the trips Ive been on it seems like everyone on the boat seems to be using tackle that was not suggested. Im trying to get all the terminal tackle ahead of time b/c Im flying in the night before the trip from Kansas and wont have time to pick up all the tackle I need before the trip starts. Now its time to share the confusion.

*Hooks: Tom, the deckhand on the Rooster, told me Super Mutus were the way to go for the big tuna. I was thinking sizes 4/0 to 8/0 for bait and sizes 10/0 and 11/0 on the Super Chunker hooks.

Confusion: Are these the right hooks? How many of each size to bring? Can you reuse one after each fish? I have heard a lot of using Mustads for cows. Are they the same quality as the Owners?

*Line/Spectra: Im going to be bringing Avets(50W,50SDS, and 30W)
I was thinking 130# JB hollow for the 50's and 100# JB hollow for the 30W.

Confusion: How many yards should/can I put on the 50's and 30? Do I need to splice 200# JB hollow on the 50'S? If so why?

*Flourocarbon: I was thinking of bringing 80#, 130# and 150#.

Confusion: How much should I bring? I read that you should change your topshot after each fish? At $44 and for 15 meters seems pretty expensive to keep changing? Do you use all 15 meters on a topshot?

*Connections: CONFUSION!: I was thinking I wanted to learn to crimp. Is there a difference between Sata and Izorline crimps. Is Sato only for hollow to mono/flouro connections or can you use them to crimp hooks as well. Are the crimps you use for line connection different from the one you use to connect hooks. What the hell is a anti-chafing spring? Do I need them? Is crimping hooks even worth it or should I just tie a double san diego? Can/DO you use swivels or rings to connect flouro to mono or can you tie a knot like the Seaguar? Can I connect hollow to mono and then the mono to a short piece of flouro carbon? I looked at the loop to loop method illustrated by branman but I know I would have to see it in person to actually figure out how it is done.

*Wahoo Fishing: I was thinking of taking a large assortment of Catchy Jigs and other Irons to throw at time.

Confusion: I wanted to make my own bombs for the trip. What size weight do you use to make them. I bought some premade bombs last time and Moses said they were too small of a weight and wahoo prefer bigger sizes? What type and size hooks go on the bomb? How do you connect the mylar onto the weight?

Certainty: The crew on the Rooster is A+++ and would gladly do these things for me, but I know from experience that during a hot bite, the last thing I want to do is ask the crew to tie something up for me or put a new topshot on my rig because there is usually not time for them to do it. I know they do the best they can to get to me ASAP but sometimes that is not til the bite is slowed or over. I also dont want to take away from those who are fighting fish or needs the crews help with tangles/gaffing etc. I want to come prepared with the necessary tackle to figure this shit out and be able to do it myself. I also know the Rooster has tackle on board, but it has been my experience that the selection of tackle is limited and they dont always have what is needed. Im certain I will have a wonderful time and enjoy the trip.

Long range fishing has become my new passion, possibly addiction, and Im trying to learn as much about it as possible. I thank anyone and everyone who reads this and responds.

Thanks and Good Fishing,
Jeff

[MikeyLikesIt]

Dont worry bout it. Rooster has a top shelf crew.....they will answer all your questions and show you how to do it on the boat.

remember, you have a 2 day ride anyway........might as well wait until then to rig up topshots and stuff......

you will have more timely intel on whats happening down on the banks.


I know how you feel, but just relax........its all gonna work out!

Im sure others will answer your specific questions.....Im outta time this morning!

[Derf284]

You are on the money with what you talked about . Call John loftus I have fished with him for years now and he is a great guy , he will help you out with any questions you got . If you cant get him pm me I will give you my 2 cents , its to much to type.

Its not that hard and take it slow you will be ok .

[BakerStBobby2]

1ST OFF...YES, YES, YES---CHANGE TOP SHOTS AFTER EACH TUNA. IT'S WORTH THE TIME AND MONEY. I KEEP 2-3 RIGS (100, 130, AND 200# TOP SHOTS) OF EACH KIND READY TO GO. THAT WAY IF IT'S A HOT BITE I CAN LAND A COW AND HAVE ANOTHER RIG READY TO GO. AFTER A GOOD RUN, OR AT NIGHT, WE CRIMP OR TIE UP OUR NEW TOP SHOTS ON BANGED UP GEAR.
AS FAR AS WHAT HOOKS TO BRING, ASK ANDY CATES (I THINK HE'S STILL THE SKIPPER ON THE RRIII)...HE'LL KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE TO USE. I WOULD SUGGEST SOME 11/0 OR 12/0 MUSTAD 7691'S FOR SKIPJACK BAIT.
I WOULD USE 130# SPECTRA ON THE 30W...IT'LL HOLD PLENTY OF IT! THERE'S ALWAYS THE BACK UP RIG IF YOU'RE GETTING SPOOLED.
YES, BRING YOUR OWN BOMBS.SIX TO EIGHT OZ. SHOULD BE FINE. CATCHY MAKES SOME NICE ONES, BRAIDS GET BIT AS WELL. HOWEVER, THE 'HOOS REALLY TEAR THOSE BRAID ONES UP, SO BRING EXTRA MYLAR SKIRTS. USE CATCHY TACKLE JIGS FOR TROLLING AND YO-ZURI BONITAS(MARAUDERS). THEY SEEM TO WORK THE BEST FOR ME.
LAST OF ALL, THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF GREAT DECKHANDS AND OTHER ANGLERS TO HELP RIG YOU UP...SO DON'T WORRY. HAVE A BLAST!!!

[chase'n tail II]

Jeff, here is some info I hope will help. While I’m a far cry from an expert, and I’m sure others will join in to address your questions, hopefully this will get you going in the right direction.

I’m always overkill on the tackle department. On my last 10 day trip on the AA, Sam the Captain laughed a deep rolling belly laugh watching me load my gear onto the deck. He said “you really bringing all that shit just for you?”

This leads to my answer on hooks. I really like having a full selection of hooks from small to large without any skip in sizing. This allows me to pick the right hook for the situation and never have to make a compromise for a slightly oversize or undersized hook. With that said, I think your hook selection listed would work fine.

Yes you can use hooks twice. If I landed a cow on one or even a respectably large tuna I would probably change hooks (and definitely top shots), but for smaller grade tuna they will be just fine. My only worry is if the hook gets fractured when taking it out of a fishes jaw with the pliers. This is a decent way to gauge when to change. If the hook has to be torqued on with pliers it should probably be changed. If you can get it out with your fingers it is probably good to go.

The Mustad hooks are just fine. They aren’t designer hooks (although they make a designer hook in their Ultra Point models, which are very good hooks) but their tinned models are exceptionally strong. I know Dennis Braid has used these hooks for years on cows and been very happy with them.

I usually like to have 25 or more of each size hook I bring. I separate them in clear lid Plano boxes and label the size and model so I can see at a glance what hook I’m grabbing. It’s over kill, but I also think the organization makes it easy to find what I need when it gets fast and furious at the rail.

I think your selection of hollow on the reels is fine except on your largest 50 I might go to 150 hollow. This gives a graduated line breaking strength from 100 to 150 with each having a bit more pulling power. Yes, I would absolutely add the 200 pound section of hollow to the top. I read about this from Wahoodad (David Choate) and it makes an amazing amount of sense. When you get the fish close to the boat you are on your heaviest section of line and you know it’s time to really put the wood to the fish. I would color code this section with a colored Sharpy so you can see when you get to the heavy line. I would personally add about 50 yards of 200 to the top.

As for the amount of line to add to the reels, I would fill them as full as possible leaving enough room for whatever length top shots you want to fish. Don’t overfill though so you end up piling the line up in on one spot on the spool and end up not being able to gain line! This is where a bit of extra room on the reel is nice, especially in a big fight!

I think you are right on with the fluorocarbon. With the cost of this type of trip the flouro might be the cheapest part of the whole game. I hear guys say it doesn’t make a difference sometimes between flouro and mono, but why take a chance? You’ve invested the time and money to be there, why not make sure you have every advantage in your arsenal?

You can definitely attach a short length of flouro to your leader with a swivel. Again, I know that wahoodad rigs like this and it works. I personally prefer to run a full section of flouro so I have one less connection to worry about failure. I run a top shot of about 22 feet, all of fluorocarbon. I use Yozuri Pink flouro, and they come in 30 yard spools, so I get 4 top shots per spool. I’ll let you decide how many you should bring, but I usually have about 4 spools per trip per line size.

There are so many ways to make the top shot connection it’s almost confusing. The Sato crimps are the ones you are asking about and they would be perfect. The Izor crimps are for mono, crimping on hooks or swivels and such. The Sato crimps work well for attaching a top shot. You slide a crimp onto the hollow spectra, and then slide about 5 feet of mono up into the hollow core. You then slide the Sato crimp down to the junction where the mono exits the hollow spectra. You should always add a drop of super glue here first and then work the crimp to the junction, and crimp. This is a solid connection and is trusted by many. You can attach each top shot this way with no knots or any other connection, and if you crimp correctly can provide a 100% connection.

This is also the place where you can add a spliced loop in the hollow core. If you set up your hollow core with an inline spliced loop, you can then pre-make leaders and put spliced loops in them as well and then loop to loop the connection. This is where you would use a cats paw. A cats paw is simply a loop to loop connection that is looped 4 to 5 times instead of a single loop to loop connection. This ensures the loops never bite down on each other and also gives you a 100% connection.

You are welcome to PM me if you want more specific instructions on these connections and I can get you the right direction. It’s always easier if you find some one to teach you in person, but I figured it out on my own by reading and then calling and talking to other anglers. It comes pretty easy if you are good with knots already.

The izor crimps as mentioned earlier are designed to crimp mono or flouro to a hook. They work great for this, especially in heavier line. I have always been a crimping fan until another angler made a pretty intelligent comment to me. He mentioned if you are fishing a sardine on a heavy line, the crimp adds additional weight for the bait to carry with him which can slow him down and tire him out quicker. We all know where that can get you, so I tie my hooks on instead of crimping. A double San Diego is in my opinion the knot of choice. Every year at the Fred Hall show they have knot contests and the San Diego always wins for strength. I have an enormous amount of faith in this knot.

Chaffing springs are simply an outer protection for the monofilament where it attaches to something like a swivel or hook so when under the load of a heavy fish the mono isn’t weakened by chaffing. When you crimp a connection you slide a crimp onto the mono and then follow this with a chaffing spring, (you can also use tefflon tubing to accomplish the same thing) and then your hook or swivel. Push the mono back through the crimp and pull the tag in a couple inches out the other side. Take a lighter and light melt the end so that it balls up. If you over heat the mono to quickly it becomes brittle and then can be easily knocked off. If done correctly the mono forms a ball that is very strong. Slide this ball of mono down to the crimp and pull everything close to tight. Using a crimping tool of the correct size, crimp the connection. If using short crimps you should always use two with a slight space between them. If using long crimps, crimp either end of the crimp. One thing you want to make sure and do is never crimp right at the ends though. You want to crimp about 1/16th of an inch away from the ends so the edge of the crimp doesn’t bite down into the line weakening it. If done correctly the crimps will actually bell out on the ends.

Finally about bombs. There is a great section on this board about building your own bombs. You should peruse that to get ideas. Just remember the main idea for a bomb is that wahoo always grab a bait in the middle. If they grab your bomb in the middle there is just mylar and a hook. It’s the ultimate ha, ha I got you rig. These work best if the fish haven’t been pressured and are on the chew. I would definitely add a spinner blade to the back of the hook via a swivel to add some extra flash and motion to your bomb.

The Catchy 33’s are the go to lure in my opinion when the fish have been pressured and aren’t chewing as hard. They have a nice swimming motion. On my last trip I had 8 grabs on the same jig and landed 2 wahoo. The entire boat only boated 12 hoo for the entire trip, so it gave me a lot of confidence I was fishing the right way.

Sorry for the long winded answers, but I remember how frustrated I used to get a clipped answers when I was looking for as in depth information I could get. I know I’ll probably get ripped apart for some of my suggestions, but to each their own.

Hope your trip is successful and you get multiple cows!!!

[Keta]

Confusion: Are these the right hooks? How many of each size to bring? Can you reuse one after each fish? I have heard a lot of using Mustads for cows. Are they the same quality as the Owners?

4/0 and 5/0 ringed Mutu and Mustad Demon hooks are what I use the most for flylining. Don't forget to bring some "J" hooks too, Mustad Hoodlum and 7691's and Owner Gorillas work for me.

Confusion: How many yards should/can I put on the 50's and 30? Do I need to splice 200# JB hollow on the 50'S? If so why?

Can't help on line capacity but I'd recommend splicing at least 50yds of 200lb Spectra on all 3 of your larger reels for ease of inserting topshots and putting pressure on the fish at the end of the fight. 200lb Spectra has better chafe resistance too.

Confusion: How much should I bring? I read that you should change your topshot after each fish? At $44 and for 15 meters seems pretty expensive to keep changing? Do you use all 15 meters on a topshot?

Tie a short section of Fluro on your 100' mono topshot or make several super short Fluro topshots out of the 15m. At the start of the trip I'd suggest the former.

[zippy1970]

HI Jeff ,

I did my 1st lrange ( over 4 days ) trip ever on the 15 day rudsty hook q 105 trip this year . there were 21/22 cows on board . 1st off I was intimidated as hell before going . doing what you seem to be doing right now . I talked to the 2 people I know that have done it before and read ALOT of old post on big tuna and wahoo fishing .

The advise I got from the website on gear recommendations was good but old . I asked about it when I was on the boat and told that I had some of the "wrong " stuff . mostly the hooks.

The guy I hunt with fished on the 105 before and said the crew will take care of everything .

The other person reccomended going to the rusty hook and talking with the charter master , alex . DO to time constarints I was not able to get there before hand . After meeting on the trip I do not believe he would have sold me anything I did not need and not leave without the stuff I would really need .

On the boat I told the crew my situation . 1 tiagra 50w and a tiagra 20 both with 130 hollow spectra . They put 130 topshots on my 50 twice , once due to a tangle , the other due to paint on the line meaning that it rubbed the bottom of the boat . Thay also did my 20 3 or 4 times with 100# topshot . My biggest fish was 150ish . but I did loose one due to 100# breaking . Thay also gave me no less that 12-15 200# rigged ( hooks and swivels ) leaders with some crimps so I can do it myself . I had to borrow all of the gear I took as I have not been fishing in 15 or so years .

On wahoo jigs bombs , that up to you . I saw some very cool homemade bombs , torpedos 4-8oz with skirts from reflection tape to chex mix bags inside out . They all worked . Mono or wire ,depended on the bite . I lost 5 bombs and 2 jigs . the bombs were cheaper , thats why I bought more .

As far as hooks , not sure really but they were 11/0 for chunking and I saw 14/0 for using 6-10lb live baits .

But again listen to the advise given here . Read old posts . like someone said talk to the man that is doing the charter . They will only give you good advise . and from my experiance talk to and LISTEN to what everyone on the trip tells you . When they saw what I was bringing , I told them why I had so little gear , I was given SOOO much helpful advise . Offered poles that were already prerigged , to fish with . That is the only thing I wish I had . multiple , heavy , rigged poles standing by.

[jpfilippi]

i know a guy who brings his rods and reels, some wind-ons, a couple packs of hooks, a few weights, sleeping pills, ear plugs, cigs, soap and towell, and some cash.... the rest he "borrows", gets on my nerves too.

[Old_Truline_Guy]

Originally Posted by zippy1970

HI Jeff ,

I did my 1st lrange ( over 4 days ) trip ever on the 15 day rudsty hook q 105 trip this year . there were 21/22 cows on board . 1st off I was intimidated as hell before going . doing what you seem to be doing right now . I talked to the 2 people I know that have done it before and read ALOT of old post on big tuna and wahoo fishing .

The advise I got from the website on gear recommendations was good but old . I asked about it when I was on the boat and told that I had some of the "wrong " stuff . mostly the hooks.

The guy I hunt with fished on the 105 before and said the crew will take care of everything .

The other person reccomended going to the rusty hook and talking with the charter master , alex . DO to time constarints I was not able to get there before hand . After meeting on the trip I do not believe he would have sold me anything I did not need and not leave without the stuff I would really need .

On the boat I told the crew my situation . 1 tiagra 50w and a tiagra 20 both with 130 hollow spectra . They put 130 topshots on my 50 twice , once due to a tangle , the other due to paint on the line meaning that it rubbed the bottom of the boat . Thay also did my 20 3 or 4 times with 100# topshot . My biggest fish was 150ish . but I did loose one due to 100# breaking . Thay also gave me no less that 12-15 200# rigged ( hooks and swivels ) leaders with some crimps so I can do it myself . I had to borrow all of the gear I took as I have not been fishing in 15 or so years .

On wahoo jigs bombs , that up to you . I saw some very cool homemade bombs , torpedos 4-8oz with skirts from reflection tape to chex mix bags inside out . They all worked . Mono or wire ,depended on the bite . I lost 5 bombs and 2 jigs . the bombs were cheaper , thats why I bought more .

As far as hooks , not sure really but they were 11/0 for chunking and I saw 14/0 for using 6-10lb live baits .

But again listen to the advise given here . Read old posts . like someone said talk to the man that is doing the charter . They will only give you good advise . and from my experiance talk to and LISTEN to what everyone on the trip tells you . When they saw what I was bringing , I told them why I had so little gear , I was given SOOO much helpful advise . Offered poles that were already prerigged , to fish with . That is the only thing I wish I had . multiple , heavy , rigged poles standing by.

Didn't know that was your first long one Andy, you did well in my opinion. I swear to God that if I knew then what I know now I would'nt take ANYTYHING with me on my first 15-day, especially on the Rooster.
That 15-day that we fished together was typical, even with great fishing I used a total of about a dozen hooks and a 1/2 dozen wind on leaders. Caught 11 tuna between 120 and 190 and 14 wahoo...good trip anywhere else but here, no cow. If this is you first long one don't try to take everything, big mistake. You will love the Rooster have a good time on your vacation.

Later, Jeff

[fish4cars]

Great advice form all The Crews are always ready to help> Get sa remt rod fr, the boat . The Q 105 has accuras 50 2 speeds with 130 # and all the right top shots so do the other boats Later the cowboy.

[backlashjack]

take the kitchen sink

[tclongbeach]

I was surprised when I went over 10 days. I used a surprisingly small amount of tackle and I fished my 130lb rig almost exclusively. I kinda laugh when I see the guys with 19 rods.....but at the same time im jealous (I only have 7!)

A few minor suggestions...

For chunk get the hooks with the swivel attached. owner are to expensive so try angler outfitters. 3-4 should do. 12/0

I sugest a 7/0 super Mutu circle or an 8/0 VMC nemesis circle hook for bait mackrel or sardine... A dozen + should do

Go buy some 130 and 100 fluoro maybe 80. Blackwater is the best ($60 25meters) , but you can get some stren fluoro for pretty cheap esp in 80lb ($28 for 75yd at charkbait). I get some frenzy 130 50 yard for $60. Make your topshots on the 4 day (not 2 day!?) ride down to HB. I serve and dont use crimps. If you choose crimps, be sure to pay attention to the flares. Have a 200lb topshot ready in the rare case its WFO (soft steel). People question the fluoro, but all of the donuts on my last trip used mono exclusively....and they are GREAT fisherman. I used to swear by long top shots, but I've changes my theories on that on my last trip. 25' is enough. Another tip is to cover your reels (with fluoro on them) to keep the sun away (the only thing that damages fluoro is heat and sun)

Use loop to loop connectors on your top shots and practive taking them on and off so you're ready for a good bite.

IMHO, I really didnt use too much else than listed above, a few weights, a few jigs and trolling lures.... PM me if you want a few cow tips....

(last trip was a #232)


tc-