Question? Rod

[DenisB]

Originally Posted by E. Harry

Denis,
Are you sure you are not pulling my chain? You are saying that the line will cut completely through the ice but the ice will freeze again behind the line so as to not be cut into two seperate pieces----right? Doesn't the rate that the line cuts through the ice, the weight on the line, make a difference? I am going to have to try this.

.

Would not pull your leg, Emory.
The weight on the line only determines how quickly the line passes thru the iceblock.

The following gets a bit esoteric, but here goes..........hopefully its worth the read.

This was one of the first things as a youngster that enraptured me to the wonders of physics.
A TV show based on basic & quirky physical experiments with the punchline
"Why Does It Do THAT", A Professor Sumner Miller the moderator, demonstrated this 'string on ice black example' in the early days of TV..............yeah , I know , dates me doesn't it.........

the show contents stuck with me and taught me a very valuable lesson to think laterally about ALL potential parameters in physical events as the result of interactions vary with surrounding influences.........AND there is usually more than one parameter or dynamic at play.
.........leads to flawed intuitive assumptions when you don't consider the full context of the event that you are critiquing.

In about the 1980's at MIT a then engineering lecturer there , Crispin Mount Miller published a thesis examining the thinking patterns of engineering students posed questions of Finite Element Analysis of engineering models of a variety of situations. The report examined why students got the wrong answers.

This published Report again highlighted the need to consider context in analysing all elements of a given situation and that intuitive thinking often leads to flawed assumptions when context and all active parameters are not adequately evaluated.

FEA is all about teasing out the real actions of multiple parameters at play in a dynamic situation, and experimental design to achieve that "teasing" is often difficult and flawed assumptions are made as a result of shortcuts or simply not doing the work to identify the significance of the parameter in the whole dynamic.

The link to rodbuilding in this is that a number of myths exist about certain aspects of rod building which are based in long held flawed intuitive thinking as a result of inadequate experimental design in determining the real action and significance of a number of parameters in the dynamic of a rod in "on water" use.

The key dynamic in the 'string on the iceblock' situation is pressure.........it depresses the freezing point of the water, but not its actual temperature, so as soon as the pressure is relieved the water refreezes.

Try it............I have no fear of the result that will be observed........it will be as stated...............I don't joke about physical dynamics.

A practical example of this is product stored in a freezer room.
- stack the boxes on top of each other too high and the pressure on the lower boxes increases to the point where the product softens and crushes.
- The 400T freezer storage room of the company I am a Director of, was designed without racking . I cautioned about 'pressure thawing' but was over-ruled in order to try to save money. When the 1 ton pallets reached 4 high ..........they came in the next morning to find busted pallets scattered all over the place & 27 Ton of product had to be dumped............then racking was installed.........no more problem..........lesson learnt, but only after a substantial financial loss.

[Spiltbeerpirate]

Whether we like them, hate them, or wish they were dead, we fought for them to have the right to assemble and be outspoken about being hateful. My time in combat, and my visits to the wonderful (sarcasm) third world countries that Uncle Sam sent me to, have taught me that I would rather be in a free country and put up with A'holes like that, then live in Afghanistan or Iraq where people can be murdered by police and officials without consequence and children can be kidnapped out of their beds and put into military service against their will.
I agree, the ignorance displayed by the majority of the American public is astounding. To most, losing their cable TV would be a violation of their human rights. All I can do is try and politely educate people when I get the chance, but returning their hate with violence would just turn our country into one of the ones we are currently fighting in. Persevere my friend, persevere.

Gopher

Originally Posted by combatvetfisher

Yes you are right i should be thankfull for my job. Here is a email i got today alerting military members and i tell you this its not the first time i have seen this Shit.

Gents,
Please make sure that each and every one of your Marines is aware of
the
following information.
Westboro Baptist Church will be staging protests in the San Diego Area and
will be targeting military members and their families as well as
pro-military churches, Jewish synagogue, and high schools. Attached is the
schedule of demonstrations along with name and address. If any of you or
your Marines attend any of these facilities you are highly encouraged to
stay away during the days or times of protests.
Background:
A Kansas-based "Baptist church" known for its anti-gay, anti-Semitic and
anti-military protests is planning four days of demonstrations at 43
locations in San Diego County next week.
Westboro - founded in Topeka in 1955 by Fred Phelps - is well-known for its
demonstrations outside military funerals, and for its protesters'
colorful signs. Among them: "God Hates Fags," "Thank God for Dead Soldiers,"
"Thank God for IEDs," "God Hates the U.S.A.," "The Jews Killed Jesus," and
"God Hates You."
The church gained notoriety for demonstrating outside the funeral of Matthew
Shepard - a gay Wyoming man who was murdered in 1998 - with signs that read,
"Matthew Shepard Rots in Hell." They resurfaced recently when they
protested at the funeral of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder in
Westminster, Md. On March 10, 2006 which gained significant media attention.
On Oct. 16 though the 19th, Westboro Baptist Church will begin protesting
outside local churches, Jewish community centers and high schools throughout
the San Diego area. Their website is blocked on DOD systems by DOD policy.
Despite the antagonizing language, Westboro's protests are often peaceful
demonstrations. They do, however, incite counter demonstrations that can
turn violent. This is the reaction the are reaching for to help gain
attention. A spokesperson for the San Diego Police Department said Westboro
contacted the SDPD with its demonstration schedule, and the police
department will provide "adequate" coverage for the demonstrations.
Again, military members and their families are encouraged to stay away from
the demonstration and counter demonstrations of any kind due to the volatile
nature of these gatherings. Keep in mind the protest is not the issue it is
the violence that can occur when others show up to confront the protestors.

If you have any questions or concerns please let me know. Thank you.

That Really gets my HEART GOING AND MY BLOOD FLOWING.Can anyone help me out still trying to find out why we can not KILL THESE FUCKING BASTARDS.

I am sorry i know this has nothing to do with rod building but sometimes i need to get things off my chest and what better way then sharing with people who have more life experience than me.

[E. Harry]

Denis,
I am going to give your esperiment a try and take my hat off to you when it works as you have described it.

[combatvetfisher]

KILL lol

[E. Harry]

Denis,
I tried your experiment and I have my hat off to you, it worked just as you said it would. I am not sure that it was working with 25lb mono so I switched to 30lb braid and it worked great. I am not sure what the difference is other than the smaller diameter. I used a 6 ounce weight on each side in both cases.
You are a clever fella.

[DenisB]

missed your reply as I was away for a couple of days

You are congratulating the wrong fella Emory, not my experiment , I'm just repeating a +40 yr old concept from a physics professor.
Quirky stuff physics.............hey

You can have fun with it, you can investigate it, you can be frustrated by it, you can be frightened by raw science, or you can learn from it.

Fishing rods has never been a high enough priority in world terms to attract much rigorous examination by the scientific community........... so the relative influences of the dynamic parameters involved in it is not particularly well understood, by many.
Its not a health issue, a significant enough economic issue, or a competitive sport with national pride at stake ............to generate a desire for scientific advances in their own right. Rodbuilding inherits scientific advances from other fields and adapts them to rods in mostly an intuitive rather than scientific way.
Its not an easy field to examine either, as the dynamics are complex and its difficult to isolate some of the individual forces to determine their nature & effect, both individually and in combination with the other dynamic parameters involved.

lots of myths evolve as intuitive explanations as a result...............some of them persist as self fullfilling prophesies.......... He He He.

some of them lead fishers to worry about things that are not really an issue in most fishing applications, others are significant issues that are overlooked and sometimes lead to dissapointment and in worst cases tears .

Passing the string thru a piece of ice is a single dynamic parameter...........just the effect of pressure on depressing the fusion temperature...........if only rod dynamics were so simple.

[E. Harry]

Denis,
I agree with you completely about rods and the lack of real science. It has only been very recently that Finite Element Analysis has started to be used in designing blanks. Until very recently it was all done by cut and try approaches and still is by most manufacturers. Finite Element Analysis has been used in some other industries for 30 years.
I think that the work that is being done on carbon fiber golf club shafts is way ahead of what is being done on fishing rod blanks. For example, golf club shafts are being matched by measuring their resonant frequency and most repair shops have devices to measure the resonant frequency of the shafts. They are also using a construction technique that results in shafts that have no detectable spine.

[combatvetfisher]

here is a couple of questions that i have in mind and need help

1. What do you use to clean the epoxy from the brushes?
2. what type of epoxy do you use and why?
3. what are some tools that are esential to begin IE. burnishing tool, thread cutters, .....
4. what book do you recomend for begginers
5. where do you usually shop for your supplies
6. is there a brand of thread that you prefer and why.

I know its alot of questions but if you could answer just a few i would really appreciat it thanx.

[Raymond Adams]

[QUOTE=combatvetfisher;1530643]here is a couple of questions that i have in mind and need help

4. what book do you recomend for begginers

To add the to the answer I gave you on rodbuilding.org
If one is wrapping while on deployment I'm suree you would agree that the UCMJ is a must read! lol

[combatvetfisher]

yeah

[Comedie]

1. What do you use to clean the epoxy from the brushes?
Disposable brushes are cheap
2. what type of epoxy do you use and why?
Threadmaster and Threadmaster Lite myself. Seems all the brands are pretty good. The key is that they all have little differences, so once you get used to using a certain one, that is the best one for you.
3. what are some tools that are esential to begin IE. burnishing tool, thread cutters, .....
My favorite tool for cutting pulled thru thread flush is the Power Hangnail Cutter by Tweezerman. Haven't used a razorblade once since getting that.
For burnishing, I just use a polished SS dental tool. But anything hard and smooth will work. The plastic ones you see sold can be used too, and found cheaper at craft shops like Michaels where they used them to rub on decals.
4. what book do you recomend for begginers
Clemens' Advanced Custom Rod Building is the standard. Hitting your local classes and seeing things done is probably worth a library of reading tho.
5. where do you usually shop for your supplies
Acid Rod and Netcraft mostly. Sometimes Donart and Binghams. Rarely Mudhole. In SoCal you've a fair number of retail shops to walk into tho.
6. is there a brand of thread that you prefer and why.
Most folks use Gudebrod and Madiera. I actually don't use them much myself. I use poly threads where I can have eyes-on at the local sewing shops. Poly thread is superior to nylon, but using commercial sewing thread you have to be ready to deal fish finish fish eyes too.