Waterslide decal application

[Fuji_Pedler]

This is a continuation on the waterslide discussion from the "I'm an idiot" thread...

Originally Posted by reelumin

dont feel bad i just wasted 4 water slide decals trying to get it right..suxs but sh!t happens

Originally Posted by 1:11

Peter, im sorry to hear about your waterslide decals, but makes me feel better that im not the only one. Those things are a bitch. I wonder if using distilled water would help, no mineral in the water, maybe they would slide better.

Originally Posted by Fuji_Pedler

Hot tap water


Be ready to get after it though because they'll release right into the water if you dunk it and leave it sit fo more than a few seconds.

Originally Posted by 1:11

I use hot tap water, in a coffee cup, dunk the decal for about 8 seconds until its bubbling at the edges then peel and place onto wet blank. Seems the edges fold up on me and dont unfold nicely or i have trouble sliding it without it wanting to tear.

Now when i added the cannabis leaf decal and black lion decal to my rasta rod those worked great because of the shape. My logo decal is just long and skinny. I was thinking maybe distilled with no mineral in the water might help, and also the water in Las Vegas in incredibly hard from mineral.

Anything sound wrong here Mark, or what do you think of the hot distilled considering the long skinny decal, and hard water, thx

Originally Posted by SALTYDAWG

Jason, I have found on the long skinny ones,If you just dip them for a couple seconds, Until they start to curl, Then pull them out and set them backing and all right on the rod where you are going to place them and drip a couple drops of water on them and let them sit for about 30 seconds or when they start to flatten out. Then just slide them off the backing and position them. This method works well for me. Those skinny little pinstripe decals I make are the worst and this method works even with them

Originally Posted by reelumin

ya i try all kinds of ways i just tried with the setting soloution and followed the derictions that decal connection says but i really suck..at least today anways..will try agian when when the new decals get here.. i also do what saltydawg says buy laying it on the blank..that works good

my logo is kinda shaped like yours 1:11 i feel your pain..

Originally Posted by reelumin

ya i try all kinds of ways i just tried with the setting soloution and followed the derictions that decal connection says but i really suck..at least today anways..will try agian when when the new decals get here.. i also do what saltydawg says buy laying it on the blank..that works good

my logo is kinda shaped like yours 1:11 i feel your pain..

I don't think it has anything to do with the water really, but that's just my opinion. That bong water could be a problem though...

I haven't used a D.C. decal in a while, but their stuff used to release pretty slow. The paper we sell parts with the backing in 5-10 seconds in 90ish degree water.

The edges folding under (corners especially) is a common problem. The first thing you want to avoid is square corners. That's just asking for trouble. ALWAYS round the corners off when you trim it. A long narrow (rectangular) decal should look more like an oval when trimmed with no sharp corners to fold under. We sell a $20 DVD on waterslides and proper trimming is probably the most valuable piece of info on it.

The DVD also spends a good bit of time talking about application with Micro-Sol & Micro-Set. As long as I'm talking myself out of sales (we sell both), I'll go ahead and tell you that I stopped using both. I was using them long before the DVD came out because it was the only way that I could move a decal around to get it in position before the adhesive locked up. Then I went on a mission to use every finish on the market and noticed that these solutions weren't compatible with U-40 AT ALL. Decals applied with the "mirco" solutions rejected the finish like water on a duck's back... I now use water instead and it works just fine. More on that in a minute...

On that note, Micro-SOL is a waste of $6 in rod building applications IMO. We only sell it because several decal companies (and the DVD) suggest it and people bugged us to get it. It's a decal softener that goes on AFTER the decal's application. It's for working on models to help decals conform to irregular surfaces, like the seam on a model car door. It will soften the decal and allow it to settle into the nooks & crannys of model bodies. Got any of those on your rod? Some say that it shrinks the decal and makes the edges "softer". Hooey... Save your $6.

On to application. I use a shallow saucer with hot tap water. After trimming the decal (remember NO sharp corners), I submerge the decal until it curls. I then pick it up by it's edges and wipe the backing like a brush across the surface that I'm going to apply the decal to, to get some water on the rod's surface. I then submerge it in the water again (all the way under the surface) with a pair of tweezers until it flattens out, telling me that it's saturated. I then remove it from the water, place it between my thumb and forefinger (both hands on long ones) and see it I can move the decal on the backing. if it's still stuck, I dunk again it until it WILL move.

After it releases (slides around on the backing), I leave just a TINY bit of the decal hanging off the left edge of the backing. Not enough to curl under, but just enough to see that it's over hanging the backing by a hair.
I then put it over the spot that I want it, just a hair to the left side and while moving left to right, I lower it in to place until that tiny edge that I left hanging off the backing makes contact with the rod. At that point, I set the decal and backing down on the rod and pin that little piece that's hanging off down to the rod with my fingernail, grab the edges of the decal backing with my other thumb and forefinger and slide it off (to the right) from under the decal. The water that I put under in earlier will sort of "float' it giving me a few seconds to move it around a little if it's not straight.

That left to right movement as you're lowering the decal into place is a key, because by catching the edge of the decal on the rod as you're moving to the right while lowering it, it's almost impossible to have the edge fold under like it will if you simply try to slide it off the backing in to place.

After I have it where I want it, I'll pin the left edge down with my finger nail again and use the slippery side of the decal backing to squeegee the decal and push any water out from behind it. After doing that left to right a couple of times, I switch, pin down the right side and squegee the other direction.

Dab up any excess water with a piece of coffee filter (no lint on filter paper like a paper towel has) and let it set up for 30+ minutes. I then go back with a damp piece of filter paper to mop up any water spots, hit it again with some dry filter paper to dry it off, and I'm done, ready for finish.

Don't try and apply decals with more than two lines of text... the taller the decal, the harder it is to apply without part of it folding under or having a kink in it somewhere. Also on that note, the more lines of text you have, the better the chances that line #2 and ESPECIALLY line #3 won't look straight... Think about it. Tapered blank... You apply the decal with the first line on the blank's zero axis and it's swell. The second line of text will be a little less straight and the third will look flat out crooked. You're better off cutting multi line decals into 2-3 strips and applying each line on it's own. MUCH easier to apply and you take the blank's taper out of play.

Now that I've talked everyone out of a $20 DVD and $12 worth of magic decal solutions, I gotta get back to work...

[SALTYDAWG]

Great tutorial Mark. I do use the micro sol though, Because a lot of times I'm putting decals all the way around the blank and putting it on CPed basewrap only, No finish and the micro sol shrinks it into the grooves. The micro set is worthless though

[Capt. G]

Originally Posted by Fuji_Pedler

This is a continuation on the waterslide discussion from the "I'm an idiot" thread..



Now that I've talked everyone out of a $20 DVD and $12 worth of magic decal solutions, I gotta get back to work...

I think I will buy both, because you telling us not to buy them could be because you are trying to hide a good thing.
And, maybe you have too much money as it is.

[Fuji_Pedler]

Originally Posted by Capt. G

I think I will buy both, because you telling us not to buy them could be because you are trying to hide a good thing.

So much for my reverse marketing plot...

Originally Posted by Capt. G

And, maybe you have too much money as it is.

Ahhhh, swing and a miss on that one dude...

[DenisB]

Excellent tutorial Mark

I have never done decals on a rod , but feel that with your tutorial I could do it successfully.

[reelumin]

THANKS FOR THE TIPS..

[1:11]

Mark, thanks for taking the time to write this up. Im going to have to read it a few more times to fully understand what you are doing. Although you gave an extremely detailed description but its still tough to visualize for my brain. Im visual.

One thing, i never keep corners but im cutting them into capsules. Rectangles and then rounding the corners. Sounds like i need to cut them more like footballs or eggs?

With this method you devised i can see that you have felt my pain in the past. Maybe i had Deb put too many decals on a sheet. My inner tightwad was correct that i could fit more decals on the sheet, but i didnt realize id waste half of them. Probably need fewer decals so i can get the right shape.

Greg, you are freaking hilarious brother.

Just for shrimps and giggles im going to try the distilled water and will let you know if that helps.

[bigeyeGuy]

Thank you Mark

[1:11]

Well, i just tried another decal and had the same challenges, couldnt get it sliding right and gave it some time and eventually it tore.

Tried another and instead of wetting the blank with water i used a little bit of slippery saliva, and the decal slid around perfectly. Not sure why it wont slide on water, but then water is not a lubricant. Could be the water here is just so full of mineral.

As long as the saliva doesnt create any problems with the decal, which i cant imagine it would i will stick with it. Just thought id share what worked for me.

Thanks again for the pointers Mark and others.