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Old Jun-30-2009, 07:46 AM   #1
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Double wrap, Single wrap, or

No-Wrap?

When I hear something that I think is unusual, such a putting on a Fuji LCSG Low Ryder on back wards to reduce line slap (thus increase casting distance) on the stripper guide, I like to test such an unorthodox application before putting on a customer's rod. In this case, after hundreds of test hours over an 18 month period, I concluded that this was not true, and and could say with confidence to the customer that putting the guide on back wards did not increase casting distance, or reduce line slap.

Other things that I test are not related to what I will ever offer to incorporate into a customer's rod; they are simply to expand my knowledge of the materials and parts that I work with.
The following is such a case.

I will need to state first, that I triple wrap my trolling rods with Aftco Roller, and Double wrap most of my SW rods. Depending on the application and rod type and use, I single wrap many of our lighter FW rods.
Many discussions have been had over double vs. single so I wondered how no thread at all would hold up. I did not do this to hope to make rods with not thread work--using thread is how I get paid.



Double wrap, Single wrap, or-dsc07674.jpg
There is a rod that gets a lot of use from me and my crew--it is a glass bass rod that I use for chucking rats and frogs on 50 lb. braid at local ponds. Fishing "Ninja" is rough on tackle, especially on guides.
In this photo, you can see one guide that has been taped on with masking tape, then soaked in waterproof "Tsurimeijin" superglue--an on the water repair. What happened?

Double wrap, Single wrap, or-dsc07673.jpg
No pulled out guide. There are many ways to lock in single foot guides so that it is next to impossible to pull out the guide. If you bang the rod/guide hard enough, it will break, especially if it is a titanium frame guide; I have seen dozens broken this way.

Double wrap, Single wrap, or-dsc07677.jpg
My crew borrows this rod for local Ninja exploits--'cause it is fun to fish with. Evil E returned it to me like this one day. I said "WTF?".
He said, "Don't even ask".

That all said, this rod gets a lot of hard use, so I thought it would be a good candidate for a "no wrap" guide (since the SiC ring had been cracked out of the previous guide).

Double wrap, Single wrap, or-dsc07668.jpg
So...I took a size 10 gold ring guide, and super glued the bottom of the foot to the blank (a little crooked, by the way). Then I coated three times with my regular rod coating.

Double wrap, Single wrap, or-dsc07671.jpg
After quite a bit of use, you can see there are some scratches to the coating, and guide frame, but it is still on--not loose at all.
Actually, I thought if might fall off the first night I used it.

What does this prove?
Nothing. I will not bother to try to make a heavier SW rod to see what happens. However, I did get a better understanding of just how strong, and important good coating is on a rod.
I plan to strip off all the guides (especially the dreaded single foot ones that keep breaking) and re-wrap when I have time.
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Old Jun-30-2009, 07:55 AM   #2
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Did E take a paint scraper to that thing?
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old Jun-30-2009, 08:04 AM   #3
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Makes sense Greg. I've sorta contemplated pvc shrink bands and some adhesive for a quickie build method myself.
If a guide can hang on at 2X the load hung off the end of the rod, it should be fine in usage. Abuse is extra tho.
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Old Jun-30-2009, 08:10 AM   #4
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very interesting,
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Old Jun-30-2009, 03:19 PM   #5
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Yep, really good myth busting stuff there Greg.
I have not used anything but single wraps of "A" for decades an any guide #40 and under on any rod.
The issue of multiple wraps comes into play in two areas :-
- people thinking its gotta be stronger & 1 wrap is just not enough.
- Abrasion resistance ( but today's epoxies take a hell of a beating before they are compromised.

Multiple layer guide wraps come into play for taller guides ( rollers & rings over #40 )
& its a lateral strength issue. The higher built wraps acting as a stronger bridge with more leverage to resist lateral forces............. its not an issue of guides pulling out , rather its the issue of resistance to guides twisting in the wrap and separating from the blank & the wrap from sideways leverage.

Oz 2C
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Old Jun-30-2009, 03:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
The issue of multiple wraps comes into play in two areas :-
- people thinking its gotta be stronger & 1 wrap is just not enough.
- Abrasion resistance ( but today's epoxies take a hell of a beating before they are compromised.
... or, because they simply look better. Which is the biggest reason I overwrap again.

Quote:
Multiple layer guide wraps come into play for taller guides ( rollers & rings over #40 )
& its a lateral strength issue. The higher built wraps acting as a stronger bridge with more leverage to resist lateral forces............. its not an issue of guides pulling out , rather its the issue of resistance to guides twisting in the wrap and separating from the blank & the wrap from sideways leverage.
... which translated says "use spirals and spinning rods"
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Old Jun-30-2009, 04:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comedie View Post
... or, because they simply look better. Which is the biggest reason I overwrap again.


... which translated says "use spirals and spinning rods"
May not agree with all you say but I love your last quote! First one too!
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Old Jun-30-2009, 06:09 PM   #8
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Aesthetics is another thing all together.........was talking strength ..........nothing aesthetic about Greg's 'invisiwrap' ......... He He
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Old Jun-30-2009, 06:12 PM   #9
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"... which translated says "use spirals and spinning rods"
Or just spine the damn rod...
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Old Jun-30-2009, 06:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DenisB View Post
Aesthetics is another thing all together.........was talking strength ..........nothing aesthetic about Greg's 'invisiwrap' ......... He He
there's a judgement call in 'strong enough', but I'd rather bet on 'stronger',,, and of course I can do the most aesthetically horrible 1st overwrap I like, and make it all better with a coat of embroidery thread
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Old Jun-30-2009, 06:39 PM   #11
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interesting, weve talked about this before.
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Old Jun-30-2009, 09:07 PM   #12
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My buddy in Aus says this is a farily common technique for repairing rods "on the fly" in his part of the world, and a lot of times the guys just put a finish coat on the repair and leave it on. More than that, there's a number of less-expensive rods that actually use tape instead of thread to save costs and are sold here but much moreso in Asia.

So it does work. I really would like to know if this could be extended to much larger rods, all the way to 80lb or 130lb class.

Now that you started this, I'm also trying to think of ways to make it pretty. Just to add it to the arsenal of things we can do and offer our customers - - -

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