Question? single thread inlay on guide wrap

MKUHN138 · Jun-29-2009, 01:33 PM

I'm doing black guide wraps with nylon single thread inlays. I would like to retain the color on the inlay, but have heard that CP on a guide wrap may cause the epoxy to crack, and will not be nearly as strong since the epoxy cant penetrate the thread. In the past when I have applied CP to only a small area of the wrap it is still noticeable even with black thread.

Does anybody have any suggestions? Or from your experience is it okay to CP your guide wraps?

Thank You

Raymond Adams · Jun-29-2009, 02:00 PM

I use CP all the time & never had any problems with finish cracking. A wrap with CP is plenty strong enough so strength is a non-issue.

Zombie · Jun-29-2009, 03:02 PM

Matt,
The problem with putting CP on black is that often you get little white specs in it. I usually just use NCP for inlays so no CP is needed. As fas cracking, I have had problems with guide feet cracking when using CP. I know alot of other builders don't, maybe it's just me. On the SW stuff where two overwraps are used, I wrap the first layer with NCP and allow the finish to flood around the foot. Then, if I want the crisp color of nylon or Madeira, I use that thread for the second overwrap with CP. I haven't had cracking problems doing it this way. Randy.

Comedie · Jun-30-2009, 09:50 AM

Much as I do Randy. I avoid CP in every way I can, and if I use it at all, it is on the final overwrap with Madiera-ish thread. I think I started doing that extra top wrap after watching Doc's DVD some time back.

Is a wrap w/ CP strong enough?,,,,, Probably. Is the same wrap with no CP stronger and less likely to have separation?,,,,, Yes. If refurbing a rod, it is pretty darned easy to tell whether CP was used or not.

Capt. G · Jun-30-2009, 10:17 AM

I guess it must depend on what finish you are using, because I have never had any cracking/strength issues with CP.

If you try to CP the area just around the inlay, it is sometimes noticeable on black.
One thing you can do is soak your inlay thread in CP as you are wind it on--that way it will be only on the inlay thread, and will not be noticeable on the black. I just put some on my fingers, and run the inlay thread through my fingers, then do the inlay bands. I have only done this with a two or three thread band inlay--I doubt it would work with a massive inlay like a fade.

REP · Jun-30-2009, 10:22 PM

Dave and I agree on many things, but this ain't one of them. Gary and I use two good coats of CP on EVERY wrap we make. On underwraps, we do a coat of CP, then do the top wraps, and double coat them and coat the underwrap in the process, which results in three coats of CP on the exposed part of the underwrap.

We have NEVER had the CP do either of the things Matt is worried about (cracking or discoloring the inlay). In fact, the CP enhances the brightness of most NCP threads we've used. As far as spots on black thread, the solution is to make sure your CP is thoroughly mixed or stirred before use to oget the solids back into solution (assuming you are using the Flex Coat or TM white stuff. For the 811-style stuff, which is sort of clear, the same idea applies.

Just to help with the idea of what finish stuff like CP and epoxy finishes do, they do NOT permeate the threads, the coat them. That's why you get bubbles - the air gets trapped underneath and tries to get out. Same with epoxy - it actually forms a shell around the thread. Thinner means it gets deeper into the spaces between the wraps (no matter how tightly you pack them) but too thin provides a less durable finish.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Comedie · Jul-01-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REP

Dave and I agree on many things, but this ain't one of them......

Well Russ, no one said you were perfect.

The only time I use CP or NCP is if I really REALLY require a very light color. Like white. Otherwise I plan for the darkening, by picking a lighter color that when hit with epoxy will darken to what I had in mind.

Maybe if I did more involved thread stuff I would use CP more, but for now I like to find my bling in other places.

MKUHN138 · Jul-01-2009, 08:52 PM

For the purposes of this one rod I'm just using NCP thread; although I like Capt. G'si idea of soaking the inlay in CP prior to putting it on the rod - I will probably try that on my next build

I asked the questions because I've heard stories about CP on guide wraps being problematic; although I do not have any experience myself. What I do know is I have stripped several rods - some with CP on guide wraps, some without. On those with CP, the epoxy comes off much much easier, and in much larger sections. That being said, I'm not going to take a chance on sacficing performance and durability (especially on a rod with black guide wraps) for the sake of one inlay.

Thank You all for your input. It is much appreciated.