u.v. inhibitor?preventing cracks

monster1 · May-12-2008, 09:32 PM

i was on a 2 dayer last year and a guy that wraps his own rods looked at my rods and told me that if i mixed u.v. inhibitor in with my epoxy it would prevent cracks in the epoxy near the guide feet. i use flex coat epoxy on my rods and take care to prep the guide feet but i still get a few guides on every rod i built that crack the epoxy near the feet. his rods i noticed didn't have any cracking near the feet. where can i get this u.v. inhibitor? i have two new bottles of flex coat and don't want to trash it to buy that new flexable epoxy that doesn't crack(can't remember the name.) thanks in advance.

monty

The Bushman · May-12-2008, 10:26 PM

Ok, I'll take a stab at this one. Most of the rod finishes sold today have some sort of UV inhibitor formulated in their epoxy. For the most part this is to inhibit "yellowing" of the finish coat. I suppose its possible that an extreme amount of UV light could dry out the finish and make it more susceptible to cracking at the feet, but I highly doubt it. From what I've seen, the finish wants to "crack" at the ends of the guide feet due to stress from the rod being bent. The guides being wrapped on prevent the guides from flexing with the rod, and the stress is transfered to the end of the guide feet. If you look at a rod with single foot guides, you'll probably see a lot less cracking due to the fact the guides can move with the bend of the rod. Some of the finishes today are slightly "softer" that others, and may not be as likely to crack. Others may be more brittle, and cracks may appear more easily. Maybe Steve T will chime in here... we did a "test" of the various finishes after leaving them out in direct sunlight for a few weeks. Some yellowed, some appeared to have more "cracking" and seemed brittle. and so on.

More likely what you saw on the other guys rods, is someone who hasn't caught a lot of fish on them. If you use your rods a lot, and catch a lot of fish, you're going to usually get some type of cracking. If they are newer, or haven't been stressed fighting fish, they may appear newer, or free of cracks.

Use your Flexcoat since you already bought it, and go fish your rods. You can always strip them down and put a new coat of finish on if they get too worn out for you.

Just my .02 worth.... others may disagree!

More likely than not

monster1 · May-12-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bushman

Ok, I'll take a stab at this one. Most of the rod finishes sold today have some sort of UV inhibitor formulated in their epoxy. For the most part this is to inhibit "yellowing" of the finish coat. I suppose its possible that an extreme amount of UV light could dry out the finish and make it more susceptible to cracking at the feet, but I highly doubt it. From what I've seen, the finish wants to "crack" at the ends of the guide feet due to stress from the rod being bent. The guides being wrapped on prevent the guides from flexing with the rod, and the stress is transfered to the end of the guide feet. If you look at a rod with single foot guides, you'll probably see a lot less cracking due to the fact the guides can move with the bend of the rod. Some of the finishes today are slightly "softer" that others, and may not be as likely to crack. Others may be more brittle, and cracks may appear more easily. Maybe Steve T will chime in here... we did a "test" of the various finishes after leaving them out in direct sunlight for a few weeks. Some yellowed, some appeared to have more "cracking" and seemed brittle. and so on.

More likely what you saw on the other guys rods, is someone who hasn't caught a lot of fish on them. If you use your rods a lot, and catch a lot of fish, you're going to usually get some type of cracking. If they are newer, or haven't been stressed fighting fish, they may appear newer, or free of cracks.

Use your Flexcoat since you already bought it, and go fish your rods. You can always strip them down and put a new coat of finish on if they get too worn out for you.

Just my .02 worth.... others may disagree!

More likely than not

you are absolutely right about everything you mentioned. however, i think this guy was implying that the u.v. inhibitor he supposedly mixed with his epoxy made the epoxy more flexible after the curing process to keep the cracking down to a minimum. and yes, his rods did look brand new. my rod that he looked at had only caught a hand full of fish on it but all were 20+ yellowtail. the rod was fully flexed on those fish, thus how the cracking occured. i wondered if this guy was having me chase "muffler bearing" by telling me about this magic u.v. inhibitor that he uses. he was kind of a know-it-all dick and i thought he might have been blowing smoke.

landingcrew · May-13-2008, 04:57 AM

the guy sounds like a ahole okay in my experiences flexcoat gets brittle in sunlight and constant bending, but i counteract the brittleness buy using some tiptop glue to hold the feet in place while wrapping. also makesure yuour wraps are good and tight on the feet it will help also. cracking is inevitable when the rod is catching fish constantly so go fishing and wrap rods.

mark

CALCOfshr · May-13-2008, 07:01 AM

Try Aftcote or the Threadmaster finishes from Lamar. I have read alot of good about both. I have also read that by wrapping when the finish hasnt fully set on the underwrap...that also helps.
Frankly, I know eventually all guide wraps crack,so I don't worry about it much.
As for UV inhibitors( WTF! ) I believe all they do is slow down any yellowing from sunlight exposure. The more flexible the finish, the better off ones wraps will stay. More coats at less applied each time works best, with just enough to give the thread a good coverage for wear and tear, and appearance. Brittle may eventually happen to all finishes,regardless of their formulation.
Thats my 2 cents worth.
I agree with Ken, that guy probably can't catch fish in an aquarium. Hence, the uncracked rods. Maybe he had someone else build his, and thats the smoke his builder blew up HIS shorts. When he realized what was the truth....he decided to pull it on someone else to make him feel LESS stoooooooooooopid?

Chuck

Zombie · May-13-2008, 07:54 AM

Monty,
I agree with Ken with this one, I think he hit the nail on the head. If it was that easy to eliminate cracking without affecting the finish, the epoxy makers would have added that a long time ago. I'm sure they did tons of research when coming up with their formulas so I doubt it's a good idea to be adding stuff to it. I think proper grinding is the best way to reduce the chances of cracking but the only way (IMO) to completely cure the problem is to have guide feet that flex as much as the blank. If your friend has added the stuff to his finish without long term effects and he believes it cured the cracking problem, good for him. I just don't buy it. I'm not a scientist so I leave my finish alone and concentrate more on proper guide feet prep. I don't think the cracking problem is a result of finish being too stiff. The guide feet themselves are the problem. For whatever it's worth, that's my .02. Randy.

monster1 · May-13-2008, 11:07 AM

thanks guys. i figured that there wasn't any magic additive to add to the epoxy. this guy was a know-it-all dick. felt like he was really just talking about himself while trying to "help me out." we all have seen those types. anyway, i'll just prep those feet, put on some flexcoat and see you out there!

Gramps · May-13-2008, 12:01 PM

Also check how you prep your guide feet. I noticed on my first rods, ones with minimal or any guide foot shaping, cracked pretty easily. Now with fully prepped/shaped feet they wrap easier and have not had one crack. Granted I build 8-15lb inshore outfits, they still have similar qualities.

For the Lamar Thread Master Finish, it is great stuff, it does take over 24 hours to fully cure but goes on very very well. I would give it a shot.

Doh Randy already mentioned guide prep. Oh well, it is important!

Zombie · May-13-2008, 02:41 PM

Scott,
That's OK, chime in anytime. You just emphasized what I was getting at. Randy.

Lend-a-Fish · May-13-2008, 03:44 PM

Monty, what kind of guides were used on the rods that you have which have experienced finish cracks? One of the reason i dont use perfections anymore, specifically WCGR's is that the guides are strong but dont flex much at all, and hence will crack the wraps. If using perfections, id probably just go with WCG's or just go Fuji or equivalent.

Guide prep mentioned here by several, ive learned makes a big difference. Also many of the lighter Fuji, Alps, PacBay and Amtak guides will give quite a bit and reduce the possibilty of cracking at the feet. Combine this with proper guide prep, grinding down a smooth ramp, and a new trick ive learned here on BD which i plan to try on my next build (very very very soon) is to use clear nail polish (thanks Randy)on the exposed metal surfaces after grinding the guides, look forward to trying that to seal the surface of the guide. This way if cracking does result over time, salt water wont be able to attack bare metal, which would certainly rust. We've all experienced that.

p-nut · May-13-2008, 07:31 PM

just put some sun tan lotion on your rods before you go out

Just Kidding!

monster1 · May-13-2008, 10:14 PM

[quote=p-nut;993533]just put some sun tan lotion on your rods before you go out

what spf do you recommend? 30 or 50? lol!

seriously though, i use perfection guides. i know, i know. they are cheap, but it is what i bought when i bought the blank a couple of years ago. they probably don't flex as much as some of the fugi, pac bays, etc out there but i am comfortable with them because i have never had one fail. knock on wood. guess when i wrap my seeker 6470 i'll use better stuff.

monty

BalcombeRods · May-15-2008, 12:25 AM

Just a NW input. As mentioned before poor guid prep. in most cases causes creaking. What I do is file the bottom of the foot first, get it flat then I start to file the top and sides. my bevel is gradual 1/3 of the foot. I file till I can cut my finger nail. tThen I take a fine file and dress every side. last I file the edge of the foot dull and remove all bures. I do not think it was the type of finish you used, As for the UV inhibrator. I think it is like my spellun it stinks. Unless you are a chemist and are used to making formulars with epoxies, don't wast your money. I am surprised he didn't tell you to add a automotive paint flex agent to your expoxy fisnish.
Good Wraps Bob

Zombie · May-15-2008, 01:07 AM

I think I'll start adding "scents" to my finish since evidently it can't hurt it,

. What's your pleasure? Bubblegum, baby powder, spice...

CALCOfshr · May-15-2008, 07:33 AM

Patchouli.........or fresh burnt ganja scented.