Fuck um....... Fire them all & charge them for what they just spent!!!!

[SSBELL]

They need to do prison time , There a bunch of crooks!! If we could only do something about it that would have results I would participate

[FishStalker]

I'll head down to Home Depot and fill the bed of my truck with pitchforks and rope...I'm serious.

Until this fucking country of apathetic whiners figures out that they are getting fucked by the very government they think is going to swing into town and rain other people's money down on them we are screwed.

Maybe some of ya'll ought to watch this:

Zeitgeist: Addendum

[BiggestT]

Not an employee of AIG. Have been to several corporate outings at the St. Regis. I'll never shoot par. Never had a rub and tug. The towels are nice. Tried to invite the wife down to join me so I could leave a stiff towel by the bed, but no go.

I was just trying to point out that not all that you read in the press is accurate. That our congressional leaders were getting jacked up over a $440K retreat bill by some subsidiary just tells me their focus is not on the real issue (actually, they were just jealous they weren't invited).

The real issue are the credit default swaps (CDS) that AIG was selling. Effectively they were selling insurance against default on subprime mortgage securities which they did not own. In the insurance industry you must have an insurable interest if you are to write an insurance policy. For example, I cannot take out life insurance on Saluki (God knows the HIV risk is high) because I am not related, nor married to Saluki. Thus, I do not have an insurable interest on Saluki, much as I love him.

Insurance companies are highly regulated at the State level. They are required to maintain regulatory capital against all the policies they write. The CDS that AIG was writing was unregulated. The CDS is sold in the over the counter market amongst willing parties, a so-called shadow market. Typically people will only accept AAA counter-party risk on an unsecured basis in the swap market. AIG was playing off their AAA rating and writing tons of this CDS stuff on securities they did not own, collecting the premiums and posting it right to the bottom line as fee income. Once they lost their AAA rating, they faced collateral calls to support their counter-party risk. That created near term liquidity issues which caused them to quickly circle the drain.

I predict that one of the first things the government will do is step in and impose regulations on the credit default swap market. Next thing I predict is that they will take a very close look at the hedge fund market and consider regulating that much as they do the mutual fund market. Our markets crave stability and confidence. The amount of money at play in unregulated hedge funds only creates instability. IMO they will have to change that.

I am writing this to educate and inform, as I believe that Joe Q Public really doesn't understand what has happened and is highly vulnerable to the spin artists in our media. Although there are seeds of truth in what you are reading, it is not entirely accurate. I'm just trying to clarify things for those who are remotely interested.

[Mo Betta]

Originally Posted by BiggestT

I am writing this to educate and inform, as I believe that Joe Q Public really doesn't understand what has happened and is highly vulnerable to the spin artists in our media. Although there are seeds of truth in what you are reading, it is not entirely accurate. I'm just trying to clarify things for those who are remotely interested.

Thanks Steve, Ive just about had it with watching the news.

In your opinion, is there anything John Q public can really do to change this? How much power do we really have? and how much of it is just what they want us to think we have? Does the whole process even work anymore?

I think I need to wet a line..........

[Bank Robber]

Originally Posted by BiggestT

I understand your outrage and this retreat at the St. Regis was in really bad taste, but a few things need to be clarified.

1) The entity which held the retreat at the St. Regis is AIG's main U.S. life insurance subsidiary, not AIG the parent holding company. That insurance subsidiary has it's own balance sheet and regulatory capital requirements. They are precluded from funneling cash upward to the parent company.

2) The article states that AIG cost the Government $85 billion, which is misleading. The Government provided a 2 year bridge loan to AIG the holding Company secured by all the assets of the Company. Very, very conservative estimates place the value of those assets in an orderly two year sale at twice the amount of the government loan, which means a very high probability of repayment. That loan is priced at 3 month Libor plus 850 bps, or about 12% at current rates. The government borrows 2 year money at 1.6%. The commitment fee on the unused portion of that loan is 850 bps, so they're paying whether they're using it or not. Finally, the Government gets warrants representing 79.9% of the Company's stock. I'd say the the government did not give them $85 billion. They freaking raped AIG and they will be repaid and own them to boot. Trust me, it is a very sweet deal for the Government.

Again, the subsidiary outing at the St. Regis was in very bad taste, but that is a wholly owned independent subsidiary and is quite independent of AIG the parent holding company.

Originally Posted by BiggestT

Not an employee of AIG. Have been to several corporate outings at the St. Regis. I'll never shoot par. Never had a rub and tug. The towels are nice. Tried to invite the wife down to join me so I could leave a stiff towel by the bed, but no go.

I was just trying to point out that not all that you read in the press is accurate. That our congressional leaders were getting jacked up over a $440K retreat bill by some subsidiary just tells me their focus is not on the real issue (actually, they were just jealous they weren't invited).

The real issue are the credit default swaps (CDS) that AIG was selling. Effectively they were selling insurance against default on subprime mortgage securities which they did not own. In the insurance industry you must have an insurable interest if you are to write an insurance policy. For example, I cannot take out life insurance on Saluki (God knows the HIV risk is high) because I am not related, nor married to Saluki. Thus, I do not have an insurable interest on Saluki, much as I love him.

Insurance companies are highly regulated at the State level. They are required to maintain regulatory capital against all the policies they write. The CDS that AIG was writing was unregulated. The CDS is sold in the over the counter market amongst willing parties, a so-called shadow market. Typically people will only accept AAA counter-party risk on an unsecured basis in the swap market. AIG was playing off their AAA rating and writing tons of this CDS stuff on securities they did not own, collecting the premiums and posting it right to the bottom line as fee income. Once they lost their AAA rating, they faced collateral calls to support their counter-party risk. That created near term liquidity issues which caused them to quickly circle the drain.

I predict that one of the first things the government will do is step in and impose regulations on the credit default swap market. Next thing I predict is that they will take a very close look at the hedge fund market and consider regulating that much as they do the mutual fund market. Our markets crave stability and confidence. The amount of money at play in unregulated hedge funds only creates instability. IMO they will have to change that.

I am writing this to educate and inform, as I believe that Joe Q Public really doesn't understand what has happened and is highly vulnerable to the spin artists in our media. Although there are seeds of truth in what you are reading, it is not entirely accurate. I'm just trying to clarify things for those who are remotely interested.

Steve thanks for the insight but I think that the unattractive complex truth of your perspective only serves to confirm those thoughts that rest under cover in the deep pools of our minds. That is that everything sucks The unclear reality of all our economic problems make it hard to pick out the real bad guys if there are any (you can be sure there are) the media (entertainment source) serves us by finding these "witches" in this case, so we the joe schmoes can focus our frustration over our impotence in regards to government and economic issues. Personally I prefer to fling shit from my internet "helm" like a monkey from his cage. All the while the Allman Brothers "whipping post" blaring in the backround.........

[BiggestT]

Originally Posted by Mo Betta

Thanks Steve, Ive just about had it with watching the news.

In your opinion, is there anything John Q public can really do to change this? How much power do we really have? and how much of it is just what they want us to think we have? Does the whole process even work anymore?

I think I need to wet a line..........

Frank, by all means wet a line, as it's good for the soul.

Can Joe Q Public change this?

Well based on what we saw from our elected representatives last week, there's a huge learning curve. Our Treasury Secretary needed to act quickly, instead we got the typical partisan BS with another $100 billion of pork added onto the so-called bailout bill. I say so-called bailout because if they buy the mortgage security assets in question at market prices, they stand a very good chance of realizing a good return off them.

Very few of our elected officials have educations in economics or finance. Most are just lawyers (I'm married to a lawyer). Being in the finance industry and seeing all the stupid things that go on, I think that more regulation is in order.

Joe Q Public's initial reaction was a resounding NO to the bailout and as a result Congress turned it down. IMO if we had a Congress knowledgeable in banking and finance, they would have realized the gravity of the situation, ignored Joe Q Public, and voted for the bailout. As Warren Buffet said about Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, "I would not have any reservations about giving a $700 billion blank check to Hank Paulson." Well that's the richest man in the world saying he has the utmost confidence in Hank Paulson. I vote with Warren Buffet any day over our elected representatives. That it took $100 billion of additional pork plus a week to get it past should tell you that we face an awfully steep learning curve.

[jpfilippi]

we can all start by fireing our lawmakers.

[SALTYDAWG]

Originally Posted by BiggestT

Frank, by all means wet a line, as it's good for the soul.

Can Joe Q Public change this?

Well based on what we saw from our elected representatives last week, there's a huge learning curve. Our Treasury Secretary needed to act quickly, instead we got the typical partisan BS with another $100 billion of pork added onto the so-called bailout bill. I say so-called bailout because if they buy the mortgage security assets in question at market prices, they stand a very good chance of realizing a good return off them.

Very few of our elected officials have educations in economics or finance. Most are just lawyers (I'm married to a lawyer). Being in the finance industry and seeing all the stupid things that go on, I think that more regulation is in order.

Joe Q Public's initial reaction was a resounding NO to the bailout and as a result Congress turned it down. IMO if we had a Congress knowledgeable in banking and finance, they would have realized the gravity of the situation, ignored Joe Q Public, and voted for the bailout. As Warren Buffet said about Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, "I would not have any reservations about giving a $700 billion blank check to Hank Paulson." Well that's the richest man in the world saying he has the utmost confidence in Hank Paulson. I vote with Warren Buffet any day over our elected representatives. That it took $100 billion of additional pork plus a week to get it past should tell you that we face an awfully steep learning curve.

Thats independent thinking, The richest man in the world says its OK thats good enough for me. Give me a break, Steve for an intelligent sounding guy, Thats about the stupidest remark I've ever heard.

[Troy]

It was not their executives on this trip although there were a few that run that division. It was a rewards trip for their largest producers/agents. 90% of attendees were non AIG employees. They were the top 5-10% of producers by premium volume during the year. Common practice in A LOT of industries, not just insurance or finance. If Bob of Bob's Hardware wants to reward his top customers with a fishing trip it's not much different (except for a few extra zeros and the pending collapse of his parent company). Their timing was terrible and they couldn't have tee'd one up any better for the media but this trip was probably planned months in advance and that division of the company continues to make profit even today.

Yes, it looks bad in light of the AIG problems and our money going to solve them however that article was slanted big time and fails journalism 101.

Yes, I'm an insurance broker (wholesale property/casualty). No, I don't do personal lines or life insurance and was not on that trip.

[BiggestT]

Originally Posted by SALTYDAWG

Thats independent thinking, The richest man in the world says its OK thats good enough for me. Give me a break, Steve for an intelligent sounding guy, Thats about the stupidest remark I've ever heard.

Actually Bill, I was saying the same thing about Hank Paulson before Warren Buffet came out with his comments about him in a televised interview. Warren's status only adds confirmation.

I will say it again, we are quite fortunate to have Hank Paulson as our Treasury Secretary during this time of economic crisis. He has an excellent grasp on the banking system, both domestic and worldwide. Although he's a Republican, he's proven that he garners respect across the aisle. This was evidenced by the fact that Democrats were the ones who supported/carried the Bush so-called Bailout legislation. If he has a weakness, it's that he has not done a good enough job selling what he's doing to Joe Q Public. He came across as "If you don't give me a blank check, the alternative will be worse." Well that came across as a threat and most people do not act kindly to threats. Then again, when there's a major fire in the engine room, the captain probably does not have a whole lot of time to explain things to the crew. You just go about fighting the fire. Again, we are fortunate to have him as Treasury Secretary.

[FishStalker]

Originally Posted by BiggestT

I will say it again, we are quite fortunate to have Hank Paulson as our Treasury Secretary during this time of economic crisis.

If by "we" you mean his rich buddies on wallstreet and at Goldman Sachs whom he's going to be steering hundreds of millions in consulting fees over the next few years...

[SALTYDAWG]

Originally Posted by BiggestT

Actually Bill, I was saying the same thing about Hank Paulson before Warren Buffet came out with his comments about him in a televised interview. Warren's status only adds confirmation.

I will say it again, we are quite fortunate to have Hank Paulson as our Treasury Secretary during this time of economic crisis. He has an excellent grasp on the banking system, both domestic and worldwide. Although he's a Republican, he's proven that he garners respect across the aisle. This was evidenced by the fact that Democrats were the ones who supported/carried the Bush so-called Bailout legislation. If he has a weakness, it's that he has not done a good enough job selling what he's doing to Joe Q Public. He came across as "If you don't give me a blank check, the alternative will be worse." Well that came across as a threat and most people do not act kindly to threats. Then again, when there's a major fire in the engine room, the captain probably does not have a whole lot of time to explain things to the crew. You just go about fighting the fire. Again, we are fortunate to have him as Treasury Secretary.

Hey Steve, You go right ahead and drink the Koolaid and follow the rest of the lemmings over the edge Obama will catch you. Some of us dont buy all the fancy double talk