Lobster Hoop Nets DFG meeting

[tailsurfer]

Thanks

[South Bend]

Originally Posted by sam1963

Starting with you guys being asked to set your net/traps out past where the beach divers are partaking. You don't want me zig zagging through your net pattern, and I don't want to be dodging boats and the dropping of anchors and hoop's

Why don't we just tweak your idea a little bit. Why don't we ask the divers to dive out past where the hoopnetters are partaking.


Doesn't sound like such a good fucking idea anymore........does it. I love how some divers thing they have some sort of entitlement when it comes to the taking of lobsters.

[WhalerGuy]

Its going into effect next season,,,no worries this round!

69R

Are you sure? Where does it say this. Thanks in advance.

[rivertake]

[QUOTE=Smudge;1487069]Do you think lobsters can not climb out of commercial traps? It was about Maine lobsters rather than CA spinys, but I believe Woods Hole Oceanographic did a study on traps by mounting a camera to commercial lobter traps to observe their behavior and they watched lobsters come and go as they pleased. Two main things would happen. A big lobster would get in the trap and "defend" it from as many of the smaller lobsters as it could keep up with and then when all fo the bait was gone, they would simply leave.

You are absolutley right, lobsters can crawl out of a conical net. They can also crawl out of commercial traps. But, conical nets and commercial traps are not as easy for a lobster to crawl out of as a flat hoop net. The conical nets give the angler an advantage. Period. End of story.

Back to the duck hunting reference, My 870 can hold 5 shells, but by law I have to have a plug in the magazine tube restricting me to three. Those other two shells give me an advantage. Just like the inward angle of your conical nets.




Are you really so desperate to argue your point so as to compare a commercial trap to a conical design hoop net?

I figured someone would be foolish enough to throw that into the mix but, I am surprised you would fall for it!

Lets look at the two designs and reason,,,, now I am no engineer,, but if need be I can have a friend who is do the math.

Commercial trap.
What are they 2' X 3' x 18" enclosed structures with two opening cones that start at say 8" round and cone down to maybe 4". I have never measured but if need be we can get the numbers. The square inch volume of the container has to be at least 5 times the comparison to a conical net. The overal square footage of the trap surface compared to the spiked openings where the lobster came from is dispraportianate to the point where once they crawl in the mathmatical probability that they will crawl out,,, well lets just figure that they will likely be a meal if being of legal size!

Conical hoop
With a bottom ring of 36" and a top ring of 20" and a rise of 6". So with a 20" opening and only 6" in rise against the volume created from both measurements of rings,,, what do you suppose the mathmatical probability is that a lobster can find its way back out in comparison to a commercial trap? Given that a lobster can go close to straight up with a flick of its tail?

It might take a while but I will have a friend do the math. To compare the two based on both being traps is ridiculous. I don't rest my case yet. I will follow up with the hard mathmatical numbers.

This does not even take in the lobster's ability to reason with the difference between a huge opening of 20" above their head in comparison to a small 4" pointy opening in the maze of steel surrounding them in a commercial trap.

Kind of absurd really? Good luck with that argument!


As to your other non related hunting references including your remmington 870,,,, well lets stay on topic.

[South Bend]

Originally Posted by rivertake

The conical nets give the angler an advantage. Period. End of story.

Well, gloves give a diver an unfair advantage too. It's easier to grab onto the lobsters. Also, scuba divers have an unfair advantage because they can stay down longer and go deeper. "Period. End of story."

There's lots of advantages out there when it comes to fishing and diving. It doesn't mean that they have to be banned. Work together not against.

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by South Bend

Well, gloves give a diver an unfair advantage too. It's easier to grab onto the lobsters. Also, scuba divers have an unfair advantage because they can stay down longer and go deeper. "Period. End of story."

There's lots of advantages out there when it comes to fishing and diving. It doesn't mean that they have to be banned. Work together not against.

Shawn,,,, I am with you,, I don't know how there was a computer glitch and I sure as hell did not make the statement attributed to me about conicals giving any angler an unfair advantage. Heck,, when I pin on a live sardine in front of a hungry tuna,,, well I have an advantage. The reasoning is ridiculous. Something happened and SMUDGE'S silly quote got stuck to me!

[South Bend]

Originally Posted by rivertake

Shawn,,,, I am with you,, I don't know how there was a computer glitch and I sure as hell did not make the statement attributed to me about conicals giving any angler an unfair advantage. Heck,, when I pin on a live sardine in front of a hungry tuna,,, well I have an advantage. The reasoning is ridiculous. Something happened and someone else's silly quote got stuck to me!

No problem. Sorry.

[rivertake]

BOTTOM LINE IS THIS



DFG wants the conicals to go away and be illegal and they have devised a biased methodology to insure this will happen!!!!!!!

The hypothetical arguments that speculate as to wether conicals create an unfair advantage and or are a trap are irrelivant to the DFG!

To propose gear code regulation changes after 2,700 report card entries shows the original intent to outlaw conicals.

We can pick apart the pitfalls that the report card does not fully take into account.

Further someone has made the statements that the DFG has conducted on the water testing between conicals and flats. A biologist present. No other interested party present like say a representative from promar or Danielson. It takes some skill to pull a flat properly to catch lobster. Further there are varying degrees of effectiveness in a small store bought flat compared to a properly made correct size flat.

If given a small store bought hoop and pulled improperly I could generate numbers the same as a conical is 51% more effective than a flat. It is too easy. A fair non biased individual would need to be present to insure data collected is done so reasonably!

[sam1963]

Originally Posted by South Bend

Why don't we just tweak your idea a little bit. Why don't we ask the divers to dive out past where the hoopnetters are partaking.

Doesn't sound like such a good fucking idea anymore........does it. I love how some divers thing they have some sort of entitlement when it comes to the taking of lobsters.

You think I should hike down a cliff with sixty pounds of scuba gear and swim out past you? I'm kind of stuck diving where I can find a parking spot in close proximity to a dive site. You, on the other hand, can motor about and drop hoop wherever. Your sense of fair play is directly proportional to your poor ability to spell and express yourself in a civil manner.

[South Bend]

Originally Posted by sam1963

You think I should hike down a cliff with sixty pounds of scuba gear and swim out past you? I'm kind of stuck diving where I can find a parking spot in close proximity to a dive site. You, on the other hand, can motor about and drop hoop wherever. Your sense of fair play is directly proportional to your poor ability to spell and express yourself in a civil manner.

So you think it's fair that I get there during the day, set up my nets, only to have you come down right before dark and start diving in and around where my nets are already established. Typical.

"directly proportional to your poor ability to spell and express yourself in a civil manner. "- Okay professor. Your really smart. How about, less thinking about grammer on BD and more thinking about how to work harder and be able to afford a boat, so you too can "motor about."

[sam1963]

Originally Posted by South Bend

Well, gloves give a diver an unfair advantage too. It's easier to grab onto the lobsters. Also, scuba divers have an unfair advantage because they can stay down longer and go deeper. "Period. End of story."

There's lots of advantages out there when it comes to fishing and diving. It doesn't mean that they have to be banned. Work together not against.

You have no clue of which you write. The average diver can get 35 minutes of bottom time at forty feet of depth with an eighty cubic foot tank, at one hundred foot depth it's twelve minutes. You and your friends have from dusk to dawn to pursue your quarry.

Gloves are not a luxury in catching and handling California spiny lobsters. Gloves are mandatory. Hello, spiny lobsters. Do you grab them barehanded?

Also, you just don't go down there and grab them. It's not that easy, lobsters are very fast, however you would know nothing about that either.
Hoopers clearly have the advantage in the sport take of lobsters.
Let's remember it's a sport.

[Saluki]

Sam,
Diving for bugs is not that fucking difficult if you drive up to another boat who has had a string of 10 BAITED nets in the water soaking for 30-45 minutes prior to sundown. Then you slip into the water, turn on your light and swim down the bouy line picking up bugs that are being attracted to the stench of bait that the hoop guy either spent $$$ on or was fishing for earlier in the day. Sometimes fishing for 3-4 hours... maybe even longer just to have enough to fill the cages for the nets. Only to have some fucking idiot cruise up, drop hook, slip into the water, turn on his light and swim right up the bouy line. All this takes place after casual conversation between these two fishermen, and the diver agrees "oh no, I won't go west towards your bouys, I'll just fish East of you. Then once he slips into the H2O he gets Amfuckingneasia!

It happens all the fucking time!

It's bullshit!


As a diver if you want respect, the give respect.
Same goes for hoopnetters...... Don't be an ass, if someone is established ready to dive or hoop, move along to somewhere else.

DON'T BE A DICK!