Lobster Hoop Nets DFG meeting

[ISLAND BOUND]

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

Hi Guys
I know some of this is redundant info ...but here goes...
The DFG is considering a change in the regulations for Lobster Hoop Net gear.
There will be two informational meetings and you can comment at that time: Tuesday Sept.22 at 7pm at the Outboard Boating Club at Shelter Island Boat Ramp facility, 2210 Shelter Island Drive in S.D.
Thursday Sept.24th at 6:30pm at the Upper Newport Bay Ecological Reserve, 600 Shellmaker Road in Newport Beach.
I am trying to contact the DFG and schedule another meeting that is closer for the LA and Ventura County guys. I'll post if something comes up!
If you are interested and want some more info here is the link to the DFG site with some pdf downloads...
California Fish and Game Commission - Proposed Regulations
Scroll down to the following and you'll get caught up on all the info.

Gear Restrictions - Salt Water Crustaceans (Hoop Nets)
Amend Section 29.80
Initial Statment of Reasons for Regulatory Action (.pdf format) Proposed Regulatory Language (.pdf format)
Spiny Lobsters (Lobster tailing)
Amend Section 29.90
Initial Statment of Reasons for Regulatory Action (.pdf format) Proposed Regulatory Language (.pdf format)

If you would like to contact the DFG commission before Oct. 1st which is the next meeting date and express how you feel and which proposal you like or if you have some alternate info to offer please do so. Here is the contact info...
California Fish and Game Commission
1416 Ninth Street
P.O. Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090

Phone # (916) 653-4899

Fax # (916) 653-5040

E-Mail fgc@fgc.ca.gov
(Please include the subject of the regulations in the E-Mail subject line.)
Section 29.80, Title 14, CCR, Gear Restriction Option #1 or Option #2 (Lobster Hoop Nets)

See ya thur night

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by M/V Santa Rosa

see ya all tuesday night at he outboard motor club,,,

Hummmmmmmmmmm Butter

I have not seen you chime in on what your position is on these proposed regulation changes Tommy. What do you have to say?

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by Smudge

Do you think lobsters can not climb out of commercial traps? It was about Maine lobsters rather than CA spinys, but I believe Woods Hole Oceanographic did a study on traps by mounting a camera to commercial lobter traps to observe their behavior and they watched lobsters come and go as they pleased. Two main things would happen. A big lobster would get in the trap and "defend" it from as many of the smaller lobsters as it could keep up with and then when all fo the bait was gone, they would simply leave.

You are absolutley right, lobsters can crawl out of a conical net. They can also crawl out of commercial traps. But, conical nets and commercial traps are not as easy for a lobster to crawl out of as a flat hoop net. The conical nets give the angler an advantage. Period. End of story.

Back to the duck hunting reference, My 870 can hold 5 shells, but by law I have to have a plug in the magazine tube restricting me to three. Those other two shells give me an advantage. Just like the inward angle of your conical nets.

Oh and BTW, making an alter ego so that you can argue your own point using another name is very lame.

Dude your trippin...

There has not been enough data collected to support a claim that a conical net outfishes a flat net. Period! Maybe they do and maybe they don't.

If a non biased seperate entity can test a conical against a flat and show with absolute certainty that the lobster fisherman has gained enough of a significant advantage by using the conical to the point where the spirit of the law has been breached ,,,,, I would agree that conicals should be limited in their use.

THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED AS OF NOW!
I do not trust how the data is being processed and used. Too many variables that the current lobster report card doesn't take into account. Additionally the data is being recorded by DFG, and DFG has proven both by action and proposals that they are against the use of conicals.

[Smudge]

So you are saying that conical nets are no more effective than flat nets? You are high if think it's easier for a bug to walk out of a conical net than it is for one to walk out of a flat net!! If flat nets are just as effective then why the fuck would anyone pay extra for a conical!! Get real!! What a joke.

[Afry]

The DFG and the biologists with them that I talked to in and outside of SD bay said their results showed the conicals were a 51% advantage over the flat nets. They were using both style nets in the same area at the same time.

However, I have had nights were one conical net not 10 yards from another would be empty all night while the other would yield bugs. So I'm not sure how scientific any fishing study can be.

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by Afry

The DFG and the biologists with them that I talked to in and outside of SD bay said their results showed the conicals were a 51% advantage over the flat nets. They were using both style nets in the same area at the same time.

However, I have had nights were one conical net not 10 yards from another would be empty all night while the other would yield bugs. So I'm not sure how scientific any fishing study can be.

So if I understand correctly from what you are saying,,, the DFG has conducted on the water lobster fishing experimentation with both conicals and flats???

Let me make them some custom flats and fish those against conicals. 51%?????? no way!

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by Smudge

So you are saying that conical nets are no more effective than flat nets? You are high if think it's easier for a bug to walk out of a conical net than it is for one to walk out of a flat net!! If flat nets are just as effective then why the fuck would anyone pay extra for a conical!! Get real!! What a joke.

What I am saying Smudge is that the data collected to this point is flawed. Biased evaluation by the DFG with inferior report card information does not constitute a fair evaluation on the performance variance between the two styles in question.

I am not going to get into a hypothetical argument as to either style's effectiveness. Might as well piss into the wind. Myself and other's have a financial vested interest. Hoop manufacturers with inventory, research and development costs, and future business interests that merit a fair evaluation prior any gear code modifications.

A performance test needs to be conducted by a non biased entity using proper methods to created absolute equality in testing.

Would you think it would be fair to let promar or Danielson conduct the testing?

[Afry]

Originally Posted by rivertake

So if I understand correctly from what you are saying,,, the DFG is conducting on the water lobster fishing experimentation with both conicals and flats???

Let me make them some custom flats and fish those against conicals. 51%?????? no way!

I'm just telling you what they told me, 51%.

Yes, they were (maybe still are) on the water - before, during and after the season. The nights I talked to them they were in a smallish (16-18') cc panga looking boat. I first spoke to them in fall of 2007.

They did say that they first hooped prior to the season anticipating that they would have difficulty getting lobsters once the season started but they were suprised to find they could get them as needed all season long.

They were the ones that told me about using a Home Depot bucket with the bottom cut off attached to the top of a conical which greatly increased the catch.

[rivertake]

[QUOTE=Afry;1487760]I'm just telling you what they told me, 51%.

Yes, they were (maybe still are) on the water - before, during and after the season. The nights I talked to them they were in a smallish (16-18') cc panga looking boat. I first spoke to them in fall of 2007.

They did say that they first hooped prior to the season anticipating that they would have difficulty getting lobsters once the season started but they were suprised to find they could get them as needed all season long.

They were the ones that told me about using a Home Depot bucket with the bottom cut off attached to the top of a conical which greatly increased the catch.[/QUOTE



Arnie,

51% is sick. Borderline unbeleivable. I would be impressed with this determination if there was a representative from promar present during these tests. That would help to insure that numbers generated are true and the testing is fair.

That style format of evaluation testing with conical and flats fished at the same times using the same baits in the same areas over an extended period of time with representation from the DFG, biologist, and representation from conical manufacturers would determine the true effective differences in hoop syle design.

I would think that a well made custom flat with a deep cone and large diameter ring should be used. Not some store bought flats that are too shallow and too small. They still don't manufacture an effective store bought flat net. I would like to know what flat net was or is being used to compare to an eclipse.

Based on some of the argumentation used by people,,,,,, a flat that I would use should be illegal. I guarantee you that a well made custom deep cone flat will outfish the ones being used in the testing currently happening by the DFG and their biologist.

[Bigfish69]

Originally Posted by Smudge

You're missing the point. The DFG never approved the design. That design came out and became popular well after the law was written. The design took advantage of a loop hole in the way the law was written. The DFG is merely closing the loophole. What's so hard to understand about that??

Exactly,,,,


Lets face it fellow sport fisherman. This is a sport right? Well lets treat it like one.

Trapping is not sportman like. I know some of you are thinking its not a trap, but trust me if you fell into the grand canyon you would have one hell of a time climbing out. Am i wrong, i dont think so! Buggs even escape from commercial traps at times but it is not very easy eighther.



Go figure i bought 12 of the new nets and i still hope they get rid of them all togethere or limit there use amount. Thats because i enjoy the sport more than the catch. Not to say that i dont love a nivce lobster dinner with my little lady accationall, its just that its alot more fun to try and catch them than to trap them. I am sure you understand. No one can be that #$%^.

As a matter of fact all my conicals are for sale to the first person who wants them for a very reasonable number. PM me if interested!


I am pro Flat nets and pro the limited use of the trapping nets.

Good luck outhere!

69R

[?? fisherman]

Originally Posted by rivertake

Dude your trippin...

There has not been enough data collected to support a claim that a conical net outfishes a flat net. Period! Maybe they do and maybe they don't.

If a non biased seperate entity can test a conical against a flat and show with absolute certainty that the lobster fisherman has gained enough of a significant advantage by using the conical to the point where the spirit of the law has been breached ,,,,, I would agree that conicals should be limited in their use.

THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED AS OF NOW!
I do not trust how the data is being processed and used. Too many variables that the current lobster report card doesn't take into account. Additionally the data is being recorded by DFG, and DFG has proven both by action and proposals that they are against the use of conicals.

I just now read this whole thread...... before today I had not even read it, but if you cant see and realize the fact that a conical net is more effective than a flat net..... well you're just not wanting to face the facts. You seem like a pretty smart guy, and the fact that you seem so in defense of the conical nets kinda proves many of these guys points IMO.

Conical nets and drag and snagging for threshers....... just two of the easier ways for fisherman to target their prey in a less sporting way...... that's how I see it. Most fisherman are always looking for the easier way rather than the more challenging & sporting way

For what it's worth, I think Marcus & Smudge have hit the nail on the head on this one.

The unknown fisherman

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by Bigfish69

Exactly,,,,


Lets face it fellow sport fisherman. This is a sport right? Well lets treat it like one.

Trapping is not sportman like. I know some of you are thinking its not a trap, but trust me if you fell into the grand canyon you would have one hell of a time climbing out. Am i wrong, i dont think so! Buggs even escape from commercial traps at times but it is not very easy eighther.



Go figure i bought 12 of the new nets and i still hope they get rid of them all togethere or limit there use amount. Thats because i enjoy the sport more than the catch. Not to say that i dont love a nivce lobster dinner with my little lady accationall, its just that its alot more fun to try and catch them than to trap them. I am sure you understand. No one can be that #$%^.


I am pro Flat nets and pro the limited use of the trapping nets.

Good luck outhere!

69R

I get what you are saying John and I agree with a lot of what you say.

That being said. I feel that the manufacturers that are so heavily invested, as well as people that have invested their hard earned money deserve a fair evaluation. I don't like government intervention without due process and fair representation.

You can compare me crawling out of the grand canyon or climbing mount everest all day long, it just is not relative. we are talking about a six inch rise in the top ring. Lobsters can crawl out any time they damn well please,,, and they do.

Promar has video showing lobsters crawling in and immediately crawling out. I have seen them crawl out myself. They are not trapped.