Lobster Hoop Nets DFG meeting

[Sherm]

It's not going to matter when the MLPA's close down the coast. LJ and Point Loma closed to three miles out. Won't leave much area for hoopin and the areas that will be open will be pressured to death in short order. Come January there probably won't be much left to hoop. Get to the next MLPA meeting so you can still use your gear.

[plj46]

Originally Posted by tailsurfer

WRONG!!!
Thats like saying bugs can't get out of holes. I see flat style being just as good as eclipse. you just need to pull it up faster and since they are lighter you can pull them up faster. I have watched bugs swim out of my eclipses as I bring them up too. Its all about the fisherman, not the net.

tailsurfer i was quoting someone else about the eclipse nets ,i use my own home made flat nets i feel they work better for legal size lobster and i do very well with them ,i feel that once a lobster gets in the eclipse net he cant just crawl right out quickly a flat net has nothing to keep them from crawling right out ,so i think that a flat net requires more skill and effort to catch bugs with,i know guys who drop their eclipse nets go have dinner and come back 2 hours later and pull up a bunch of keepers try that with flat nets it probably would not be as productive

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by Sherm

It's not going to matter when the MLPA's close down the coast. LJ and Point Loma closed to three miles out. Won't leave much area for hoopin and the areas that will be open will be pressured to death in short order. Come January there probably won't be much left to hoop. Get to the next MLPA meeting so you can still use your gear.

Hey Scott,

Agreed the MLPA process is very important and MLPA meetings are important. Much love, respect, and grattitude to all those that have been fighting, and continue to fight that battle!!!!

That being said these are two entirely separate and individual issues, and need their individual attention and attendance. Tuesday night at the ramp 7 p.m. is the meeting time and place for this issue in regards to numbers of hoop nets and style of hoop nets.

I surely wish I had not invested all the money I have in conicals! I had really sweet hoops that were custom made. I had fished them for twenty years with much success. Unfortunately last season I sold them all. If conicals are made illegal I GUARANFREAKIN T you I will make some bad ass deep hoop nets. And I WILL CATCH LOBSTERS just the same!!!! I am just seriously pissed that the conicals have been allowed without issue for years and that all of a sudden could be made either illegal and or limited in their use.

Fish and Game SUCKS! They don't have a clue how a hoop net works. When they say that we can just cut the uprights from a conical and fish it flat they expose their IGNORANCE.

On a lighter not bro,,, I will see you on your yak soon and we can enjoy a cigar. Later, Dave

[rivertake]

Wardens in the field are reporting the popularity and efficiency of the new style devices.
They are finding the success of those using these devices much greater then those using
the old style hoop nets. As of July 1, 2009, the Department had entered data from 10%
(2716) of the report cards received. Of the 2716 cards, the data showed that there were
790 people using traditional style hoop nets to take lobsters. There were 531 people
using the new style devices. The current data shows that there is a 1.81 catch per outing
with the old style hoop nets and a 2.43 catch per outing with the new style devices.
The field wardens feel some of these new style devices act like traps. This causes a
concern that the recreational hoop net fishery is evolving into something that was not
intended when the legislature prohibited the use of traps for recreational lobster fishing
(Fish and Game Code Sections 8250.5 and 7256).



Based on this report conicals outfish flat style hoop nets. This data is compiled from our report cards. Now I have friends that fish both conicals and flats on the same night. As an example a friend of mine fishes 4 conicals and 6 flats on any given night. Say he limits for two people and catches 14 legal lobsters. On his report card he puts 14 legal lobster caught and marks both conicals and flat style hoops.

Knowing that F&G is against conicals and for flat hoops,,,,, where do you suppose the lobster catch was credited to??? Is there any doubt that conicals got the credit for the 14 lobsters?

I do not trust data imput!!!! Especially when the report is generated by someone who has a bias.

[Marcus]

Conicals were never approved by the DFG. The manufacturers found a loophole and expolited it. DFG is closing the loophole.

[sam1963]

[rivertake]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Conicals were never approved by the DFG. The manufacturers found a loophole and expolited it. DFG is closing the loophole.

I disagree


DFG is without due diligance making a case that a conical is a "trap"
They have come to this conclusion with what scientific data?
The argument is not wether conicals or flats are more effective. Rather wether or not a conical is a trap.

some examples of wether or not a conical is a trap,,,,I give you these

1. I have found conical hoop nets the following day from someone's prior night of hoopnetting. The bait was gone and no lobster's were in the conical. This has happened on three occasions. (posted found net and returned two of the three conicals to its rightful owner)

2. I sometime's fish in shallow waters. I will pass by the hoop and shine a light into the conical hoop to see wether any lobsters are feeding on the bait. Having seen only a lobster or two, I will leave and let the hoop continue to "catch lobster" hoping for more or bigger lobsters. Later when I pull up the conical it is empty. The lobster or lobsters have crawled out,,, just like when they crawled in.


Since when is it ok to punish American's or a company for their enginuity and creativity? Welcome to communist America!

[Sherm]

Originally Posted by rivertake

Hey Scott,

Agreed the MLPA process is very important and MLPA meetings are important. Much love, respect, and grattitude to all those that have been fighting, and continue to fight that battle!!!!

That being said these are two entirely separate and individual issues, and need their individual attention and attendance. Tuesday night at the ramp 7 p.m. is the meeting time and place for this issue in regards to numbers of hoop nets and style of hoop nets.

I surely wish I had not invested all the money I have in conicals! I had really sweet hoops that were custom made. I had fished them for twenty years with much success. Unfortunately last season I sold them all. If conicals are made illegal I GUARANFREAKIN T you I will make some bad ass deep hoop nets. And I WILL CATCH LOBSTERS just the same!!!! I am just seriously pissed that the conicals have been allowed without issue for years and that all of a sudden could be made either illegal and or limited in their use.

Fish and Game SUCKS! They don't have a clue how a hoop net works. When they say that we can just cut the uprights from a conical and fish it flat they expose their IGNORANCE.

On a lighter not bro,,, I will see you on your yak soon and we can enjoy a cigar. Later, Dave

Looking forward to that cigar bro. PM me so we can discuss timing and location so we can hook up on the water again. I'm probably avoiding opening night. Don't want to be a plastic speedbump out there.

I resisted buying more conicals last year because of the arguements about thier legality. Glad I didn't make the investment. However....I can't carry much on my yak anyway Your investment in the boats gear is much more substantial.

[jpfilippi]

maybe someday there will be so many lobsters (and can't take them) that the fringe left enviromentalists will all celebrate a beach day and all go into the water at the same time, and they will all be eaten alive by 128 Billion lobsters.

[Marcus]

This is hearsay but the DFG conducted a study using both conicals and flat hoops and found that the conicals were 18% better.

When a law is written there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. In DFG's opinion the conicals are violating the spirit of the law and are making adjustments to the letter of the law to get it more in line.

A lobster can walk in and out of a flat hoopnet very easily not so much with a conical. I think that is the spirit of the law.

Laws need to evolve with technology, that's just the way it works.

[rivertake]

"heresay" doesn't cut it.

To make a conical style hoop illegal based on an 18% supposed better catch ratio, is absurd! So someone makes a better fish trap, feather, jig or whatever. The DFG doesn't like how much more effective the new "mouse trap" is. They are "concerned" about the fishery and outlaw the new and better fish trap, feather, jig.

Again I say since when does American ingenuity and creativity deserve to be punished?

The argument is not wether flat or conical is better. DFG wants to outlaw conicals because they consider them to be a trap.


If I were the owner of promar, or Daniellson and had as much money invested in conical design,,,, I would have a damn good attorney making sure that the DFG does not just willy nilly decide that my product was a trap. I know for fact that lobsters can crawl in and out of conicals. Simple as that. They are not traps!!!

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by rivertake

"heresay" doesn't cut it.

To make a conical style hoop illegal based on an 18% supposed better catch ratio, is absurd! So someone makes a better fish trap, feather, jig or whatever. The DFG doesn't like how much more effective the new "mouse trap" is. They are "concerned" about the fishery and outlaw the new and better fish trap, feather, jig.

Again I say since when does American ingenuity and creativity deserve to be punished?

The argument is not wether flat or conical is better. DFG wants to outlaw conicals because they consider them to be a trap.


If I were the owner of promar, or Daniellson and had as much money invested in conical design,,,, I would have a damn good attorney making sure that the DFG does not just willy nilly decide that my product was a trap. I know for fact that lobsters can crawl in and out of conicals. Simple as that. They are not traps!!!

Dude, laws change to keep with technology all the time. There used to be no speed limits as cars were not able to go fast. Ingenuity created faster and better cars and laws followed to limit speed.

When you go to pull a flat hoopnet the lobsters have a chance to make a break for it and get out before you start pulling. In a conical they do not have that chance as they are "trapped" since it is in essence a semi-enclosed structure.

Live ducks used to be used for decoys and those were outlawed as they were too good.

Spinning wing decoys are outlawed at the beginning of waterfowl season because they are too good.

Ingenuity will continue to come up with ways to get around the spirit of the law and then laws and regulations will adjust.

That's the way it works.