Lobster Hoop Nets DFG meeting

[Bigfish69]

Originally Posted by rivertake

I get what you are saying John and I agree with a lot of what you say.

That being said. I feel that the manufacturers that are so heavily invested, as well as people that have invested their hard earned money deserve a fair evaluation. I don't like government intervention without due process and fair representation.

You can compare me crawling out of the grand canyon or climbing mount everest all day long, it just is not relative. we are talking about a six inch rise in the top ring. Lobsters can crawl out any time they damn well please,,, and they do.

Promar has video showing lobsters crawling in and immediately crawling out. I have seen them crawl out myself. They are not trapped.

I said all that to mean that this is a sport and it should be treated that way. I do very well for myself with flats when i want to and yess its alot more work and you really have to pay attention to what you are doing and know certain things about your surroundings to yeild a satisfactory catch but this is the way it was meant to be.



I know many people who are up in arms because the conicals are being looked at very carefully. This is only because they are lazy and unexpierienced in the art of catching lobster. Its that simple. Perfect example. Guy goes out and drops his conicals, he goes away to have dinner or grabbass with his boy friend and then returns to retrive his bounty. Or, Same guy goes out and puts out 10 conicals and drinks till he cant see straight and then pulls his nets retrieves his bounty and heads for the barn. That to me can be fun also but its not very sportman like. Hope that clears it up~!

Lets all face it, we dont want the goverment or other overbearing agencies controlling what we do in terms of our fishing passions right? Ok, now with that out of the way, i do think there is room for control of this so called trapping situation. I know its not the most popular thing to do or say but its the correct one.

Tight Hoops.

69R

[gpomplin]

Originally Posted by Bigfish69

I said all that to mean that this is a sport and it should be treated that way. I do very well for myself with flats when i want to and yess its alot more work and you really have to pay attention to what you are doing and know certain things about your surroundings to yeild a satisfactory catch but this is the way it was meant to be.



I know many people who are up in arms because the conicals are being looked at very carefully. This is only because they are lazy and unexpierienced in the art of catching lobster. Its that simple. Perfect example. Guy goes out and drops his conicals, he goes away to have dinner or grabbass with his boy friend and then returns to retrive his bounty. Or, Same guy goes out and puts out 10 conicals and drinks till he cant see straight and then pulls his nets retrieves his bounty and heads for the barn. That to me can be fun also but its not very sportman like. Hope that clears it up~!

Lets all face it, we dont want the goverment or other overbearing agencies controlling what we do in terms of our fishing passions right? Ok, now with that out of the way, i do think there is room for control of this so called trapping situation. I know its not the most popular thing to do or say but its the correct one.

Tight Hoops.

69R

no john its not because they or should I say we are lazy or inexperienced ITS BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY PEOPLE HAVE TIED UP IN THE CONICALS , PROMAR NETS, these days money doesnt grow on trees for most of us anyway, and just for your info I use promar's and am not inexperienced have been lobster fishing over 40 years as have many people....

[?? fisherman]

Some of you guys are killing me with your statements about how much you have invested in Conical hoops and such.

Are you kidding me..... many of us have that same $400 investment you have in hoops in ONE (that's right one) fishing reel, and we are about to lose a ton of areas to some bogus closures. Im all about proper fish management, but more closures.... NO. Maybe you guys should focus your anger towards the bogus MLPAs instead.

It's about time to get pissed!

The unknown fisherman

[rivertake]

My friends, I am comfortable with the fact that we are going to have to agree to disagree. Continuing to argue back and forth about the effectiveness and legality of conical hoops in this forum is pointless, really. I will submit my arguing points with DFG.
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Fact is I know the inevitable result will be in time conicals are going to be at best limited and more likely eliminated. This is what DFG wants and the data collection will be skewed to insure the desired result.


I will come to terms with the financial loss that I have incurred. I will come to terms with another business being controlled by our government. And I will go see my friend Pete down on India street to purchase some killer netting. I will make some 36” top rings and whatever size is going to be allowed by the DFG bottom ring. I will build some crazy sick flat hoops and I will catch my lobsters the same as I have for over 25 years.

I can only hope that the gear code regulations are not modified so as to make this years model illegal next year.


I know this is the predetermined way of things. I only regret that I did not have the fortitude to see this coming. I had no idea that conicals were ever in question about their legality and had no idea this was coming. Yes maybe I keep to myself too much. I only started posting on bloody decks last year and no one sent me the memo about possible and or imminent gear code regulation changes.

Like I have said,, I bough new conicals mid season last year. I only bought them because my flat hoops netting was going on 5 years use and was being torn too easily by creatures from below. I had a choice….. Either I go see Pete and fork out the $$$ for the nice netting I like and spend days reworking my gear,,, or buy a product that was ready made and fished effectively. I chose poorly. My bad.

Good luck on the water this year everyone, and if you see a couple guys on a small gregor skiff with a 20 hp Yamaha,,, come on by and say hello. I will have a cold one for ya and we can share some lobster tales.

John,,, I have no comment about your calling conical fishing lazy. I will catch lobster with flats the same as conicals.



Later, Dave

[tailsurfer]

Can a mod put up a poll for plan 1 and plan 2. I want to see what the numbers are currently. I would, but don't know how to.

[rivertake]

John (bigfish69)

What we say and how we say it exposes who we are and how intelligent we are.

To call someone you have never met lazy is presumtous at best. I have never been lazy. I don't drink. If I am passionate about something I go after it full tilt.


Mike (??fisherman) I too fish offshore,,, if my wife only knew how much all that gear in my garage "locker" cost,,, well lets say she wouldn't be happy. I can only hope that my government continues to allow me to fish in some places---- and fish at all! for now I am at their mercy. Aren't the mlpa's supposedly about protecting the fishery of offshore species, kinda the same reason for gear code changes?


Matt (smudge) brother thank you for serving. Your reward should be great. Much respect and appreciation.

For me, I have a strong belief in GOD. My allegience to biblical values comes first. I am blessed beyond measure. My business kicks strong even now through difficult times. I can afford to make new hoops. I think it is inevitable. But for now I will fight for a fair process to determine wether or not an eclipse hoop is overly effective and creates an unfair advantage to lobster fishermen.

Later, Dave

[tuna taxi]

Originally Posted by Afry

However, I have had nights were one conical net not 10 yards from another would be empty all night while the other would yield bugs. So I'm not sure how scientific any fishing study can be.

My laptop is in the shop so I haven't been keeping up with most of the threads(managed to pry my daughters laptop out of her hands) but I would like to say that I agree with Afry.

During my 2008 season I experienced the the same thing. Prior all these post about the MLPA and new hooping regulations/restrictions I had already decided to replace or convert(if possible) my eclipse nets to conicals. Most if not all of my high yield catches in 2008 were in conical nets and not the eclipse....why? I don't know. Perhaps it's because it's easier for a lobster to simply walk over a net than it is to climb onto and into one...I don't have video, facts, or studies to proof why, I'm just basing it on MY OWN EXPERIENCE. Fortunately, I only have four eclipse nets that I want to replace.

[Bigfish69]

Dave, maybe the word lazy was not the right word!

There are many people outhere that understand perfectly what I was trying to convey. As for your statment on inteligence, I don't consider myself to be the fastest car on the track but I sure am not the slowest.


One thing if I might ask besides the monetarry aspect of the equation is, if its the same amount of work and just as productive as a flat net,why the big controvercy over flat over conicle. We are all taking it in the shorts which I am not thrilled about but its the way its gonna be. Bacck to my point, if conicles are the same as flats catch wise what's the problem besides the money.

Best of luck to you all and I will definatly take you up on that beer.

Tight hoops


Sorry my typing is bad, typing from my blackberry phone


69R

[rivertake]

One thing if I might ask besides the monetarry aspect of the equation is, if its the same amount of work and just as productive as a flat net,why the big controvercy over flat over conicle. We are all taking it in the shorts which I am not thrilled about but its the way its gonna be. Bacck to my point, if conicles are the same as flats catch wise what's the problem besides the money









I really am against government controlling businesses without due process. I feel very stronly being a business owner that both promar and danielson deserve a fair shake when it comes to evaluating the performance of conicals vs. flats. Simple as that.

If someone is creative enough to improve a product and has spent time effort energy and money developing the product,,, they at the very least deserve a non biased evaluation that is thorough and creates statistical data that is accurate.

This has not happened yet. Report card data is inadequate in so many ways. More detailed information properly garnered is required. And the data NEEDS to be from a non biased organization (not DFG).

When results are fairly compiled DFG then has the control to properly asses if any changes are required.

[Bigfish69]

I did the math for ya. I purchased 12 conicles at a price tag of 38 dollars each this includes some custom mods i made to make them my own. That totals a whopping 456 bucks. Not to mention about 600 more bones for other things that i can not devulge here.

Ouch! I agree this is a pretty stout blow to my gut not to mention my wallet and i am not completly thrilled with the conmplete faze out as i would like the opportunity to fish them and lose them at will on my own dime.

This is not however the end of the road and will not completly kill me like it might some people and for those people i dont know what to tell them except that this is life.

I have lost that amount of money at Barona 3 to 4 times over in one night and moved on.

It was a gamble to buy those things from the beginning. I remember sitting in my garage drinking a few beers with a buddy of mine which will remain unnamed to protect his innocence after he deliverd them to my front door and discussing the legality of them. He at that time admitted to me that he liked them and was sure i would to but he was not 100% certain that they would be around very long due to DFG standards. I did a ton of research after buying them from him and it turned out that the way the DFG rule was written the was a lot of room for modifications. This way the begining to the end and i new it as plain as it was written before me.

So there you have it,,,it sucks,,,we will have to deal with it,,,life will go on!

69R

[rivertake]

John (bigfish69)


You can't take money out of the equation. I would be lying if I said it also was not a factor.

Also, there is the time factor involved in building new quality flat hoops. I will not fish store bought flat hoops. They are too small and highly ineffective. It is no wonder DFG according to an earlier post , has a 51% better catch ratio in eclipse hoops to the flats. I would never fish a store bought flat hoop. THey are worthless and barely can catch anything. I would suggest that a properly made deep cone style flat net could outfish a store bought small flat net by 51%. -------- but you see that is just speculation. I would be required to fish them side by side over an extended period of time, under various conditions, with same baits, with someone there to verify the accuracy of my assesment to make a statement like that.



DFG game warden's are crediting conicals with being a trap. The premise to these gear code restrictions is in part because a conical is a trap. By definition when you are trapped you can't get out. I don't agree that a lobster is trapped in a conical. They get out. It is a proven fact.

I have never argued wether a conical is or is not more effective than a flat hoop. That is foolishness. I am not a fool. Read my posts starting back on page 5 or so. I am very clear what my arguments are.

[Bigfish69]

Originally Posted by rivertake

John (bigfish69)


You can't take money out of the equation. I would be lying if I said it also was not a factor.

Also, there is the time factor involved in building new quality flat hoops. I will not fish store bought flat hoops. They are too small and highly ineffective. It is no wonder DFG according to an earlier post , has a 51% better catch ratio in eclipse hoops to the flats. I would never fish a store bought flat hoop. THey are worthless and barely can catch anything. I would suggest that a properly made deep cone style flat net could outfish a store bought small flat net by 51%. -------- but you see that is just speculation. I would be required to fish them side by side over an extended period of time, under various conditions, with same baits, with someone there to verify the accuracy of my assesment to make a statement like that.



DFG game warden's are crediting conicals with being a trap. The premise to these gear code restrictions is in part because a conical is a trap. By definition when you are trapped you can't get out. I don't agree that a lobster is trapped in a conical. They get out. It is a proven fact.

I have never argued wether a conical is or is not more effective than a flat hoop. That is foolishness. I am not a fool. Read my posts starting back on page 5 or so. I am very clear what my arguments are.

I see your points,,,definition is very flimszy i too agrree but it will not change hinged on that alone. I think you should spear head this thing personally and bring your arguments to the table at the meeting. I know many guys would respect and back you on your veiws.

I too have caught about the same amount of buggs in both and actually have done slightly better in the flats, but could be due to many factors. Anyway it is because of this that i really dont mind them cutting back on the use of those nets and going to flats only, aside from the money loss of course.

One more thing, you say in your statments that you would never use store bought nets??? Why not? They work pretty well dont they?

I Build my own baddass flat nets, portagee style and they are one of a kind. I know several people who use store bought 36" flat nets who outfish me on some nights. So for that reason i will have to disagree that they are not as good. I think they are different and that is all. I do prefer my 36 portagee style better than the store bought 36 and i know i have the advantage in certain conditions but if the conditions are right the store boughts can work just as well.

69R