Help, friggin post office

speedgoat · Feb-08-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el Toro

Not true at all. You do not need to be a dealer to ship a gun once you have gone through the DOJ process and the gun is registered to you. I have done it on four different occasions. While not necessary, with a shotgun you will probably raise less eyebrows if you take it apart and ship it as "parts." Just pack it well and ship it UPS. I have shipped guns (a rifle twice, a pistol once, and a shotgun once) back and forth to me for repair and/or customization and believe it or not, it is just like shipping anything else. USPS will never mail a gun as a matter of policy, but UPS will. This can't be done during the initial sale, but after that, no problemo. Like anything else valuable, just make sure it is insured and get your tracking number.

Nate, when you were shipping it back and forth for repair, were you shipping it to a gunsmith? I think there are a separate set of of rules that allow for that without an FFL. As an individual shipping a firearm between states to another individual I think an FFL requirement will still apply. Even if you part it out, if you ship a receiver that's still classified as a firearm and requires an FFL. It's been a while since I've had to even think about that so things may have changed, but given the current anti-gun environment these days I'd doubt it.

**el Toro** · Feb-09-2007, 08:14 AM

Once I shipped to a gunsmith. Twice I shipped back to the factory, and Once I shipped to a place that did accuracy work. In each case the gun was shipped directly back to me either at my office or to my home doorstep. No FFL. That was as recent as about this time last year when I sent my Win M70 .270 back to Texas to be accurized. And just two years ago I sent my Kimber rifle back to the factory in New York to have the stock replaced, and it was then sent directly back to me. The shotgun and pistol were several years ago, however. In any case, I was never asked for any special paperwork, proof of FFL, or anything. For all UPS knew I was sending it to another person or totally unrelated business. When shipping I always used the company's acronym or a specific person on the address label so a theif could not tell there was a gun inside the package. I have also known friends that have shipped guns to friends and family with no problems. If ya don't believe me, call UPS. Maybe we've been lucky and repeatedly got a dumb person at the counter of the UPS store, but I know of many situations where guns were shipped to people. Just not for sale. That's the rub.

Sluester · Feb-09-2007, 08:25 AM

I just take them apart and ship them, never have had a problem.

Kurt · Feb-09-2007, 08:51 AM

I shipped out all my firearms from Denver, no issues.

WhoFish · Feb-09-2007, 09:27 AM

You can ship firearms (long guns) to yourself at a different address no problem. I'd use FedEx as UPS is somewhat anti. Handguns can only be shipped via air (next day, second day, etc.) but long guns can be shipped ground. Again to yourself at a different address requires no FFL involvement.

Fresh One · Feb-09-2007, 11:28 AM

Here is the info for shipping guns to Beretta for service. Nate is correct, its not a big deal.

Even the best firearms in the world occasionally need to be serviced!

If you wish to ship a firearm to Beretta USA or Bolsa Gunsmithing (a Beretta authorized repair facility) for repair, please do the following:

1. Send the complete firearm, including choke tubes for shotguns and magazines for pistols. We cannot perform a proper diagnosis of your problem without all of the pieces of your firearm! Please ensure that your firearm is cleared of live ammunition. Do not ship your firearm with a live round in the chamber or magazine.

2. Securely package your firearm and insure it against loss, damage and theft. If you are uncertain of how to ship your firearm, please check out UPS or Federal Express to learn more on your shipping options. (If shipping a handgun, you must specify Next Day Air delivery)

3. After you have packaged your firearm, please place a letter or note in the box describing the problem with the firearm or complete the form. Please include the following information:

a. Your name
b. Return street address (no Post Office boxes - we cannot ship to them) including city, state and zip.
c. Description of the problem with your firearm
d. Telephone number where we can contact you if we have questions
e. Enclose a copy of your original sales receipt.

4. Once you have completed the above steps, ship your firearm to either:
Beretta USA
17601 Beretta Drive
Accokeek, MD 20607
Attn: Service Repair
Phone: (800) 636-3420
Or Bolsa Gunsmithing
7404 Bolsa Avenue
Westminster, CA 92683
Phone: (714) 894-9100

5. Upon receipt of your firearm, we will repair it according to your instructions or contact you if we have any questions.

6. To check on the status of the repair, please call the phone number of the repair facility where you shipped your firearm. Please have the serial number of your firearm available when you call.

speedgoat · Feb-09-2007, 12:09 PM

Shipping a firearm across state lines is clearly possible but to remain within the confines of the ATF laws certain rules apply as I see it. If you ship to another out of state individual/entity that person needs to be licensed in some fashion as an FFL holder, either as a dealer, a manufacturer, or a gunsmith. You can ship to an out of state non-licensee if it's addressed to yourself, but the box has to remain unopened by anyone else. Clearly there's room for fudging on that, but that's how the law is written.

Just a heads up if you want to avoid any potential trouble.

The following info is taken straight from the ATF FAQ website:
ATF Online - Firearms FAQs

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[IMG]http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/ /><o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>


(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
<o:p></o:p>
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. <o:p></o:p>
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?

Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.


I7) Is a licensed gunsmith’s return of repaired or customized firearms to their owners subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?
<o:p></o:p>
No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
[18 U.S.C. 922(d), 27 CFR 478.32(d)]


(P24) A firearm is delivered to a licensee by an unlicensed individual for the purpose of repair. Is the return of the repaired firearm subject to the requirements of the Brady law? Would the transfer of a replacement firearm from the licensee to the owner of the damaged firearm be subject to the requirements of the Brady law?
<o:p></o:p>
Neither the transfer of a repaired firearm nor the transfer of a replacement firearm would be subject to the requirements of the Brady law. Furthermore, the regulations provide that a Form 4473 is not required to cover these transactions. However, the licensee’s permanent acquisition and disposition records should reflect the return of the firearm or the transfer of a replacement firearm. <o:p></o:p>
[27 CFR 478.124-25] <o:p></o:p>

Sorry for weird formatting, but for some reason it won't cut & paste properly.</o:p>

whitefish · Feb-09-2007, 12:19 PM

Not sure all the legal mobo jumbo....but I had a collectable 30/30 I needed to bring back from OK and the gun shop over there told me to remove the stock.... ship the rest UPS and I brought the stock on the plane with me....the rest arrived at home the next day.

Cuda/Hoo_Killer · Feb-09-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedgoat

Shipping a firearm across state lines is clearly possible but to remain within the confines of the ATF laws certain rules apply as I see it. If you ship to another out of state individual/entity that person needs to be licensed in some fashion as an FFL holder, either as a dealer, a manufacturer, or a gunsmith. You can ship to an out of state non-licensee if it's addressed to yourself, but the box has to remain unopened by anyone else. Clearly there's room for fudging on that, but that's how the law is written.

Just a heads up if you want to avoid any potential trouble.

The following info is taken straight from the ATF FAQ website:
ATF Online - Firearms FAQs

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[IMG]http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/ /><o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>


(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
<o:p></o:p>
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. <o:p></o:p>
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?

Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.


I7) Is a licensed gunsmith’s return of repaired or customized firearms to their owners subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?
<o:p></o:p>
No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
[18 U.S.C. 922(d), 27 CFR 478.32(d)]


(P24) A firearm is delivered to a licensee by an unlicensed individual for the purpose of repair. Is the return of the repaired firearm subject to the requirements of the Brady law? Would the transfer of a replacement firearm from the licensee to the owner of the damaged firearm be subject to the requirements of the Brady law?
<o:p></o:p>
Neither the transfer of a repaired firearm nor the transfer of a replacement firearm would be subject to the requirements of the Brady law. Furthermore, the regulations provide that a Form 4473 is not required to cover these transactions. However, the licensee’s permanent acquisition and disposition records should reflect the return of the firearm or the transfer of a replacement firearm. <o:p></o:p>
[27 CFR 478.124-25] <o:p></o:p>

Sorry for weird formatting, but for some reason it won't cut & paste properly.</o:p>

damnit Scott, Fix the formatting will you

TheTaz · Feb-09-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el Toro

Once I shipped to a gunsmith. Twice I shipped back to the factory, and Once I shipped to a place that did accuracy work. In each case the gun was shipped directly back to me either at my office or to my home doorstep. No FFL. That was as recent as about this time last year when I sent my Win M70 .270 back to Texas to be accurized. And just two years ago I sent my Kimber rifle back to the factory in New York to have the stock replaced, and it was then sent directly back to me. The shotgun and pistol were several years ago, however. In any case, I was never asked for any special paperwork, proof of FFL, or anything. For all UPS knew I was sending it to another person or totally unrelated business. When shipping I always used the company's acronym or a specific person on the address label so a theif could not tell there was a gun inside the package. I have also known friends that have shipped guns to friends and family with no problems. If ya don't believe me, call UPS. Maybe we've been lucky and repeatedly got a dumb person at the counter of the UPS store, but I know of many situations where guns were shipped to people. Just not for sale. That's the rub.

True..shipping to a dealer/manufacturer/ business is acceptable.
I just spoke with my goodfriend, UPS driver, and he said that many people send firemarms through their system. He suggested not to take it to the front counter and disclose that it is a gun.

daugh.
I work for Fedex and the rules are very strict. The UPS driver wasn't clear on their company rules.

Good luck.. make sure you insure it!