Idaho Elk Hunt 10/12/06

altals · Oct-10-2006, 11:11 PM

Heading to Lewiston, Idaho with my friend, Steve and his son to hunt with our friend Eric and his three sons, who live in Lewiston. My son has his STA's this weekend and can't make this trip. We got in a special drawing and pulled 4-Bull Elk tags for the six of us. I leave Thursday morning and get there at noon. So we will hit Craig Mountain from the airport.

Last trip we ended up with a cow Elk and I shot a trophy 12-point. Scored 168 in the book. I have the head mounted in my office.

Will post the kill pixs, if we get so lucky.....

Enjot the pixs for last time.

Sluester · Oct-11-2006, 05:25 AM

Good luck! Looks like you guys did well last time.

Vermonster · Oct-11-2006, 06:09 AM

Hope you slay them!!!!!!! Great photos from last year....

**el Toro** · Oct-11-2006, 08:28 AM

Slammer whitetail! Nice job. Way to go on the cow too. Were you hunting National Forest?

altals · Oct-11-2006, 11:58 PM

Last year we hunted private land.... this year we are doing both private and public land....

**el Toro** · Oct-12-2006, 08:26 AM

That's cool. If it was Nat Forest I was about to get on your case about the quad. I have nothing at all against them. I just hate it when guys venture off the roads on public land.

speedgoat · Oct-12-2006, 12:45 PM

I don't see anything wrong with the use of quads to retrieve downed game, especially with the larger species like elk. Of course you can't be in a wilderness area, but I think non-wilderness National Forest areas are fine if legal for the area.

I'd prefer to use horses, but I haven't had that option very often. I've only used a quad to bring out an elk once and that was from a hunter we happened to bump into when he walked up on us as we were gutting a cow elk at dusk. He walked back to his camp and came back out to where we were and hauled the cow out for us in the dark. That saved us hours of hard work. Hell of a nice guy.

I'd never personally use one to hunt with, and I'm not so down with guys using them for that purpose, but for hauling I think they are fine. I mean really, what's the difference between using a quad to haul out a mulie and a pickup truck to haul out an antelope? Just my .02.

**el Toro** · Oct-12-2006, 09:41 PM

No difference at all as long as they are on existing roads. I'm totally fine with that. What I hate is when someone takes their quad miles across the country where there is no road or trail to retrieve game or just to cover ground and hunt on one. I have no problem at all with ATV's as long as they stick to established roads and trails. Just don't venture off the road on public land. It only tears up the countryside, causes erosion, spooks game, and gives hunters a bad name. Bottom line, on public land, cross country (off of an established road or trail) ATV use is illegal, for any reason. A law is a law. It's just like any other violation. And besides that, it's just not cool when you've packed in miles to hunt a roadless and trailless basin and here comes a lazy ass on his quad ruining what you worked so hard for.

If it's private land, different story. Go wherever the hell you want as long as its cool with the landowner.

At least this is how I see it.

speedgoat · Oct-13-2006, 01:20 AM

It sounds to me like you and I essentially agree on this Nate, with maybe the exception of a few minor grey areas. All of my hunting on National Forest land has been in CO so that's my frame of reference; things may be different here in CA.

I know that in CO each National Forest district manages their land use policies individually with discrete regulations for their own jurisdictions. I've hunted in different N.F.'s that had different policies regulating OHV travel. Some restricted travel to established road/trails whereas some had no definite regulations. Some N.F.'s had a "game retrieval" policy that allowed the use of ATV's for retrieving downed game animals where normal ATV use would otherwise be prohibited. The last time I hunted CO was fall of 2004 so things may have changed since then. Obviously, in a Wilderness area it's a non-issue since all motorized/wheeled traffic is prohibited.

Also, in CO the term "road" or "trail" is a highly subjective term. What might appear to be a road on the map may well start out as a nice dirt/gravel road and quickly degenerate into a narrow, steep, log blocked, overgrown, highly eroded obstacle path. If this "road" isn't gated to prohibit traffic, what's to stop an ATV from using it? You're still on the "road" and obeying the N.F. restrictions, if any are in place, so you are still abiding by the law. I'm not saying that I would use an ATV on such a trail, but legal is legal, right?

Also, the parks in CO can be quite large, 1/4-1/2 miles in width and several miles in length or more. They can also be highly sloped. If you down a big bull elk, or even a cow in the middle of one of these, especially at dusk, it can be a serious chore to pack the quarters out to the nearest "road". I can understand why guys use them to haul their animals out. Most of the guys I've seen who do so are older. If you don't own or have access to horses what are your options?

That being said, I don't own an ATV and I've never used one to hunt with. I've hunted wilderness areas almost exclusively, the only exceptions being for antelope and the season we shot the cow with the ATV gift mentioned earlier. The area we used the ATV for that cow elk had a game retrieval policy in effect.

I do this precisely because I want to avoid ATV hunters, crowds, and all the noise they generate. I really don't begrudge them too much unless it's an area where it's prohibited. But the areas where ATV use is probable are easily avoidable, at least in CO. Where I usually go I don't see ATV's. They just can't physically get there. I don't like jet ski's either but they're legal and I avoid areas where they congregate too.

Of course that means tons more work. I've been the guy that shoots a bull elk at dusk, has to gut and quarter it alone by headlamp and then haul the first load out on my back through steep terrain and thick shit in the dark. I think I made it back to camp sometime after 1am that night. But that's a price worth paying for me to get back into the quality areas. I can't justify the price for a guide and/or a hunt on private land so I've always hunted public land. It's also a more satisying hunt, at least for me.

I agree, it's not cool to see an ATV thunder by a spot you've spent a lot of time hiking up in to. And if it's an area where it's prohibited, then those guys are fucking pogues. But if it's one of those "grey areas", maybe cut them a little slack because someone's grandpa on one of his last elk hunts may be on one of them. That's all I'm saying.

Again, just my .02. Sorry for the long post.

Vermonster · Oct-13-2006, 06:50 AM

As an example, go to the area just past our checkpoint on HWY 94, called the "Pink Gate". It's BLM land, good quail and deer hunting, and all public use. AND, a sign on the gate that says "Stay on existing roads"! If you look in at least 2 of the hills near the road, there are new trails being developed by quads that think it's fun to go hill climbing (Off the road, through fields). Nothing more than that.

That's what I think the problem is. Especially when there is a sign....

I have no problem using them for hauling dead critters when legal. Hell, my relatives have used tractors to haul their deer out....

**el Toro** · Oct-13-2006, 08:44 AM

I think we are all basically on the same page. I've never heard of National Forest's that allow cross country ATV use for game retrieval or anything else. I know that has never been the case for any of the several National Forests I've ever hunted. But if such use is legally permissable, and appartently it is, then I'm certainly OK with it. I may not philosophically agree with it (what is wrong with the old fashioned way of packing meat out on your back with a pack frame), but if it's legal, have at it. Signs or not, legal or not, I just can't stand the guys who abusively ride their atv's, tearing up the land and vegitation with no regard for natural beauty. And I certainly have no regard for an ATV owner who blatantly breaks the law. I'm glad we all agree. I wish there were more guys like us in the woods. People with no respect for the beauty and sanctity of the hunt, should not have the privilege to do so.

speedgoat · Oct-13-2006, 06:52 PM

Yeah I too hate the assholes that race around with their ATV's/jeeps/whatever and tear up the countryside. Even if legal, there's no reason to do that. The same thing goes for mountain bikers that ignore the wilderness signs and bike along the hiking trails. I can't tell you how many bikers I've had come barreling down the trail at me while I was hiking in a designated wilderness area. I think there's a big difference between "Treading Lightly" and using a motorized vehicle to retrieve downed game and hauling ass through the countryside tearing up everything in your path. Damaging property that belongs to all of us for the sake of your own enjoyment or convenience is just plain selfish and low.

As an FYI for the future if your curious, in CO the NF land is typically broken up into zones where certain travel methods are regulated. Some zones prohibit all off-road/trail access whereas others allow for it. Each NF district manages their own jurisdiction independently and controls the access areas and travel methods. The zones are printed directly on the NF maps issued by the Forest Service for each district, along with footnotes telling you what's allowed.

I attached a couple of pictures to illustrate what I'm talking about. These particular pictures are from the San Juan National Forest map that I had in my office and scanned.