what can i catch......

Chasst · Nov-09-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiltbeerpirate

Hey, fish away man! just C&R and don't eat'em.

Never been into catch and release for some reason. I like to eat what I catch/shoot. I'll be free diving and snorkeling just for viewing though

Maybe I'll stick with the pelagics and risk murcury poisoning instead! We've had to cut back on our tuna intake. Its easy to eat it 4 or 5 days a week when you've got shelves and freezers full of it. Its just not safe to eat that much of it though. I find that very few turn it down as gifts and it makes great trading fodder. I've cut way back on my intake over the last few weeks so that I can eat a little more while I'm on the island.

After reading a little more closely, I may target certain reef fish and throw back those that are on the high risk list. I hope to be out at the buoys instead of on shore.

Chass
ct

Addicted2fishin · Nov-09-2009, 01:09 PM

ciguatera never leaves your system. I was doing.. but never finished.. my master in Marine biology, ciguatera in ulua... over 10 years ago so studies are more accurate now. One thing thats inaccurate is people saying they got over it and its not in their system. It lays dormant ready to be triggered again. The toxin , Gambierdiscus Toxicus, builds up in ones system until signs of illness show. Every person reacts differently. I can eat a hundred lightly tainted fish and show no signs. My neighbor can eat one and show slight signs. Every person is different. My good friend ate reef fish his whole life... all it took was one Yellow eye Kole to eventually set it off.... no beer or nuts for a year. Symptoms do subside but await another trigger.

Its a gamble. If you think you are immune you are not a good gambler. I won't go so far to say don't eat any reef fish. But testing is appropriate if you are skeptical. Remember this though... larger fish harbor higher toxin levels. Smaller have less. Common sense right? But for sensitive individuals..all it takes is that small fish while the guy down the block chowed down on that hot Ulua and showed no effects.... until another smaller fish sets it over the edge and he gets it.

Aside from the thread jack

Youngkid.... caught any big boys?

youngkid · Nov-09-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LundieF

Good idea, better safe than sorry with all those hot fish out there. If you do catch papio though, send them my way. I'm doing an experiment and looking for donations.
(my experiment may involve shoyu and wasabi)

i agree. i caught a papio last year. ate him, and was fine. was so good.... but now im scared about it. i dont want to get food poisoning from a game fish. if all reef fish get it, then wouldnt it work its way up the chain all the way to shibi aku and mahis and all the pelegics?

grander007 · Nov-09-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngkid

i agree. i caught a papio last year. ate him, and was fine. was so good.... but now im scared about it. i dont want to get food poisoning from a game fish. if all reef fish get it, then wouldnt it work its way up the chain all the way to shibi aku and mahis and all the pelegics?

I sure ain't a scientist, however there seems to be consensus that fish that primarily feed on other carnivore fish (non-herbivore fish) are either not a risk or a very very low risk - as far as I have heard there are no documented cases of ahi, mahi, ono or marlin here, in Florida, the carribean or Australia - the real exposure are near shore 'reef' fish meaning ulua, parrot fish, nabeta, etc - fish that live all or nearly all of their lives on the reef...

"

Toxic Fish:

Many fishes (2) listed over

400 species of bony fish that many of the early references did not distinguish between ciguatera
and "clupeotoxic" or "scombrotoxic" poisonings. Clupeotoxicity occurs
in herring and anchovies, plankton feeders, and causes rapid death in
humans (2). The origin of the toxin is unknown, but may be derived from
the ingestion in the food chain of toxic tropical red tide dinoflagellates as Pyrodinium bahamense (35). Pelagic tunas and other scombroids that
have spoiled and contain histamine produced by bacteria such as Morganella
morganii have been termed "scombrotoxic" (2, 18). Ciguatera is
clearly distinct from the well-known tetraodontid (puffer fish family and
one goby species) poisoning from tetrodotoxin (2, 5).
None of the pelagic fish such as marlin or mahimahi (Coryphaena hippurus),

and few (and those probably erroneously) of the plankton feeders
or those fish grass) have been found to contain ciguatera toxin(s) ( 1). Ciguatoxic fish are
restricted to species feeding on algae or detritus around tropical reefs,
especially the surgeonfish reef carnivores and omnivores that prey largely upon the herbivores. These
predators include the reef sharks (Carcharchinidae), moray eels (Muraenidae),
Jacks (Carangidae), wrasses (Labridae), snappers (Lutjanidae),
scavengers (Lethrinidae), and some inshore tunas (Scombridae), groupers
(Serranidae) and barracuda (Sphyraenidae) (34). Randall (34) examined
807 specimens of fishes Enewetak and 19.7% from Bikini were found to be at least mildly ciguatoxic.
The systematics and food habits of these toxic fish are reported by

Randall (34)."

youngkid · Nov-09-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grander007

I sure ain't a scientist, however there seems to be consensus that fish that primarily feed on other carnivore fish (non-herbivore fish) are either not a risk or a very very low risk - as far as I have heard there are no documented cases of ahi, mahi, ono or marlin here, in Florida, the carribean or Australia - the real exposure are near shore 'reef' fish meaning ulua, parrot fish, nabeta, etc - fish that live all or nearly all of their lives on the reef...

"

Toxic Fish:

Many fishes (2) listed over

400 species of bony fish that many of the early references did not distinguish between ciguatera
and "clupeotoxic" or "scombrotoxic" poisonings. Clupeotoxicity occurs
in herring and anchovies, plankton feeders, and causes rapid death in
humans (2). The origin of the toxin is unknown, but may be derived from
the ingestion in the food chain of toxic tropical red tide dinoflagellates as Pyrodinium bahamense (35). Pelagic tunas and other scombroids that
have spoiled and contain histamine produced by bacteria such as Morganella
morganii have been termed "scombrotoxic" (2, 18). Ciguatera is
clearly distinct from the well-known tetraodontid (puffer fish family and
one goby species) poisoning from tetrodotoxin (2, 5).
None of the pelagic fish such as marlin or mahimahi (Coryphaena hippurus),

and few (and those probably erroneously) of the plankton feeders
or those fish grass) have been found to contain ciguatera toxin(s) ( 1). Ciguatoxic fish are
restricted to species feeding on algae or detritus around tropical reefs,
especially the surgeonfish reef carnivores and omnivores that prey largely upon the herbivores. These
predators include the reef sharks (Carcharchinidae), moray eels (Muraenidae),
Jacks (Carangidae), wrasses (Labridae), snappers (Lutjanidae),
scavengers (Lethrinidae), and some inshore tunas (Scombridae), groupers
(Serranidae) and barracuda (Sphyraenidae) (34). Randall (34) examined
807 specimens of fishes Enewetak and 19.7% from Bikini were found to be at least mildly ciguatoxic.
The systematics and food habits of these toxic fish are reported by

Randall (34)."

hmmmmm.......... thats a long ass list

Mingo · Nov-09-2009, 08:03 PM

that shit is scary! I wonder what percentage of ancient Hawaiians died from Cig, like malaria in Africa.............bad stuff. I've feasted on ulua many times........no problems, but I don't like gambling!

So.....how many of you carry a testing kit?

youngkid · Nov-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mingo

that shit is scary! I wonder what percentage of ancient Hawaiians died from Cig, like malaria in Africa.............bad stuff. I've feasted on ulua many times........no problems, but I don't like gambling!

So.....how many of you carry a testing kit?

i agree, gambling.... im afraid to eat ulua now. but they are so ono tho......

grander007 · Nov-09-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mingo

that shit is scary! I wonder what percentage of ancient Hawaiians died from Cig, like malaria in Africa.............bad stuff. I've feasted on ulua many times........no problems, but I don't like gambling!

So.....how many of you carry a testing kit?

I have heard that the test kits are 1) hard to find, 2) unreliable (as in always pink instead of red or white, and 3) not cheap (although $30 for 3 or 4 tests seems OK when considering the alternative) - I just stay away from the reef fish and stick to off-shore trolling but for those that love to catch and eat reef fish it can be a pain - also, barricuda, even caught off shore, can have it so my simple advice is to only kill and eat true pelagic off shore fish - it works for me, but alot of others do their own thing

tight lines,

PS - there are some interesting comments on the Isle man's case shows ciguatera's risk | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser

youngkid · Nov-10-2009, 06:15 PM

so there is no possible way to get rid of it? even if you gut it out right away? and put it in ice? there is no way around it?

grander007 · Nov-10-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngkid

so there is no possible way to get rid of it? even if you gut it out right away? and put it in ice? there is no way around it?

sorry, no - the meat itself is contaminated - the organs and head are very toxic, but the meat itself is also toxic - ice will not help, nor will cooking it...it is a neuro-toxin...people I have talked about this with in HI (some of whom have taken home deep water barricuda we caught trolling, against my advice) believe that they somehow know which types of reef fish are safe from what areas, but for me the delicacy of reef fish is not worth even a small chance of the described effects...fish do swim around, and, there is no doubt that every near-shore reef fish is some risk (the ? is how much, and how bad to you want to eat that colorful funny looking buggah)...I vote for pelagic fish or a happy meal on the way home...

Bizarre fish poisoning sparks alarm - Food safety- msnbc.com

tight lines,

Mingo · Nov-10-2009, 08:26 PM

Man oh man.....I used to catch quite a few barracuda in Mexico ....... needlefish too....and eat them. Fresh and mesquite grilled, they are really good eating, but I didn't even know what cig was in those days.

Maybe I should go buy a lotto ticket....................

youngkid · Nov-10-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grander007

sorry, no - the meat itself is contaminated - the organs and head are very toxic, but the meat itself is also toxic - ice will not help, nor will cooking it...it is a neuro-toxin...people I have talked about this with in HI (some of whom have taken home deep water barricuda we caught trolling, against my advice) believe that they somehow know which types of reef fish are safe from what areas, but for me the delicacy of reef fish is not worth even a small chance of the described effects...fish do swim around, and, there is no doubt that every near-shore reef fish is some risk (the ? is how much, and how bad to you want to eat that colorful funny looking buggah)...I vote for pelagic fish or a happy meal on the way home...

Bizarre fish poisoning sparks alarm - Food safety- msnbc.com

tight lines,

well that sucks. i think i can handle a few stomach aches and cramps and the runs for a few days. its worth it. i got a strong immune system. jk. not sure about it.....