| Dancing pickle guy
Name: doh !! Age: 45 Vessel: it sunk Location: gardengrove Job:Trouble maker Bio: need to fish in excess
Posts: 2,435
| Re: Irvine Lake Report 01/10/06
here is what the lake has to say
cut copy & pasted from another site
correspondence from steve carson ( irvine lake staff ) to mitch
thanx for doing all the work mitch and finding the answers
personally i think we are getting half the truth but read on and draw too your own conclusions /form your own opinions
NOTE : I HAVE EDITED OUT ANOTHER WEBSITES INITAILS AND INSTALLED "xxx" IN IT'S PLACE
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UPDATE TIME
I want to first thank everyone for keeping this thing mild mannered for the most part. That shows respect to Irvine Lake and reflects positively on the xxx and it's members. I want you guys to know that considering the cirsumstance I feel that Steve Carson has responded to the situation very quickly and I for one am thankful for that. He sent me a confirmation and introduction e-mail last night at 9:42pm to let us know that he was looking into everything. Again this was sent at 9:42pm and is clearly outside of his work hour responsibilities I would presume. I received a detailed report on the stockings at 10:38am this morning, but was in the car going from appointment to appointment. Yes, I was working! I sent a thank you response to Steve with a few more suggestions (will detail later) around noon and I promptly received another response at 1:17 pm. I again want to mention that I think we are all thankful to Steve for taking the time to open the lines of communication with us.
Here is Steve's response that details the Irvine Lake stockings over the period in question.
Quote:
Hi Mitch,
Just got off the phone with Dave Noyes, and the "bonus" [extra 5,000 pounds] stocking indeed did not go in the water on Jan. 4 last week, although the "regular" stocking did go in as usual. Anytime there is a bonus stocking, it comes from Mount Lassen Trout Farms, while the regular stocking comes from Calaveras Trout Farms. The reason for the delay on the bonus stocking was weather related, and has been re-scheduled for Friday the 20th [1500 pounds of it will be large fish over 8 pounds each]. There will also be a regular stocking scheduled on Wednesday of that week of 5,000 pounds, so there should be plenty of fish for your tournament.
All of the other advertised stockings from December 14 on went in as usual, making it a total of approx. 25,000 pounds over that period, not 30,000 pounds. There are always variations in the exact totals stocked, and the numbers for upcoming stocks are what is ordered. Assuming a normal week of 5,000 pounds, the number of fish that actually go into the lake will usually be slightly less [but can sometimes be more], based on what the farmers actually get with their nets, die-off, etc. The suggestion about putting up a chalkboard/whiteboard with the "last planted" date and actual total planted is a good one, so on a week where the advertised amount was 5,000 pounds, the board may say something like
4,356 pounds. We will try to get the board up ASAP. All of that said, a few points need to be made. After reading the various threads, part of the problem is perception. About 2 1/2 years ago, [due to legal contracts], Irvine literally planted double [sometimes triple] the normal amount of fish all season. The bite was wide open for nearly 6 months, and people got used to it. Based on a normal 5,000 pound plant, it equates to roughly a single 5-fish limit for 700-800 people. During the Christmas and New Years holiday period, there were sometimes 800 people per day at the lake. Even with heavy planting, the fish get taken out quickly.
There does seem to be a shift in the fish's behavior, but some anglers are still able to do well by thinking outside the box. However, releasing/culling of trout is stictly prohibited, and spending a fishing day to catch 5 trout is what we are striving for. The expectation of fishing all day and catching 10, 20, or more trout can't continue. Looking through the last month's worth of reports, there appear to be many instances where anglers caught their limit of 5 fish, but complained that it was slow. Joseph in particular is very good about posting very specific information about what the fish are biting on, his recommendations are usually right on. By all means please keep the questions coming.
Thanks,
Steve Carson
My response:
Quote:
Steve-
Thanks for your research and response. I'm slammed with appointments until this afternoon. May I post your response to quiet the critics? I'm glad you like the Whiteboard idea and I feel like the absolute clincher to end this once and for all would be to post the receipts from Calvaras and MT. Lassen. What do you think of that idea? I also believe the goal of 5 trout is reasonable. Thanks again for your time and honesty.
God Bless,
Mitch
Steve's Response
Quote:
Mitch,
Feel free to post my message. As for posting invoices; up until last year about this time, we did post them. Critics still were complaining heavily because the 5,000 pound [ordered] plants were actually somewhat less, so we stopped. I'm not sure if Dave will start it back up, but will ask.
To illustrate the current unwarranted hostility, a recent poster vehemently complained about the lack of good action from the [according to him] 3 advertised 15,000 pound plants. Checking back, after the grand opening in October, there were not any 15,000 pound plants advertised. There were only 3 advertised 10,000 pound plants, one just before Thanksgiving, one on Dec. 14, and the one for Jan. 4 that has now been moved to Jan. 20. Even a 10,000 pound plant only provides a single 5-fish limit for 1400-1600 people, so the fish leave the lake quickly during crowded holidays even if fishing is slow. Also checking backwards, we are careful not to exaggerate how the fishing is. Recent sample headlines:
"Irvine Lake trouting slowed by holiday crowds" [Nov27] "Irvine Lake trout on the picky side" [Dec4] "Irvine Lake trout bite slowed by winds" [Jan8] I still depend on a few key people to measure the fishing action, since just this past weekend we had a Dad who was with his kids in the lagoon complain loudly at the shop about not catching anything. Upon checking the man's rig, he had a large rock as a sinker, and a 1/0 hook snelled with 30 pound test. When advised about proper rigging, his reaction was that for the cost of admission, the fish should be biting on anything he throws. Keep a close eye for Joseph's advice on FN, those who stubbornly stick with their long-time favorite bait/lure can strike out.
Thanks,
Steve
As you guys and gals can tell these e-mails required some time, thought, and energy. They weren't just simple one liners to quiet the storm. So basically here is the way the plantings need to be looked at.
1. Taking Steve and Irvine Lakes word that these were planted all stocks have been made. The exception is the 1 bonus of 5,000lbs that includes 1,500lbs of 8lb + trout and up, which will be moved back to Jan. 20th. Perfect timing! Booyah! I personally believe Steve is telling the truth and think we should take his word for it. What I do expect/hope and will be working towards is that Irvine lake will post a message board at the concession with the last stocking date and the lbs of fish that were added. Whether it be 4,200 or 5,100lbs. I also am going to continue to ask for Irvine Lake to post receipts of the amount of fish stocked and the date at the concession window as I think that is reasonable.
What we have to understand is that there are going to be somethings out of Irvine lake's control with respect to these stockings. If a stocking is backed up due to weather conditions then we must be understanding as long as that's communicated to us. This information should be posted on the chalk board by Irvine Lake management and the employee's answering the phone should be aware of that and let a customer know about the mix-up if they are asked. I don't think they should have to announce it, but if they are directly asked then they should answer truthfully.
In order for Irvine Lake to post the receipts of the stocked trout then people need to understand that sometimes the trout hatchery can't catch or net all 5,000lbs of fish and that some will ineveitably die in transit. So when Irvine lake does post the receipts we need to understand they aren't there for us to complain, but to inform us. If they could get a perfect 5,000lbs everytime I'm sure they would. It sounds to me that people were freaking out when they saw the numbers being less than 5,000lbs despite the fact they were being honest.
Closing Points
1. I think the xxx extravaganza should stay at Irvine Lake.
2. I believe that people fishing bait should absolutely never try to catch and release a fish. Barbless and gentle in the water handling is probably the only way a trout has a chance of surviving a release. If you catch 5 you need to get another pass, switch target species, or go home. Here is an example of how it should be done by a new member.
3. Keep in mind how fast those trout go when the numbers of anglers are that high at the lake. Not to mention cormorants, pelicans, bass, and catfish eating them.
4. The group discount for 25 or more is something that I will bring up as well. I don't think it makes sense for them to give $5 off to everyone who mentions the xxx for the reasons Smitty mentioned. That's not smart business. I do think we could try to arrange a certain number of ID cards or passes that could be turned in with names on them and maybe that would work for them. I'm sure we would need to do the leg work on that though.
Thanks xxx and Irvine Lake for keeping this civil and let's continue to work together to get things communicated effectively and to have realistic expectations. I will continue to work on the receipts, etc and post if you have any other ideas.
Thanks again.
if anyone wants to read the thread @ the other site please pm me or mitch for the direct link
thank god BD allows freedom of speach
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