Erwin knot

[tunarado]

Ok I’m not finding any diagrams for the Erwin knot online, all the links appear to be broken. From what I can gather this knot is basically what I call a double improved clinch knot (the line is passed through the eye twice, similar to a Trilene knot), which I have been tying for light tackle sense the 80s thanks to In-Fisherman. I was obsessed with that show as a kid, I cried every year the season was over.


So here is the single improved clinch knot:
The Improved Clinch Knot

Trilene knot is like this:
The Trilene Knot

I assume the Erwin is a Trilene knot with a clinch finish, which I call a double improved clinch knot. If it is, it’s nothing new.

Another way to say this is that this knot is the same as a Trilene knot with the tail passed back through the big hoop similar to the clinch knot except the line has been passed through the eye twice.

Does this photo look like an Erwin knot, not the best photos but:


80# mono, looks good before its cinched but does not cinch well with this large line.





(photos taken using 4lb Stren clear blue fluorescent line and a black light, larger line would have stood out more but I did not have any)

Me personally I use this "double improved clinch knot" for everything under 30#. I use the double San Diego for everything 30# and up.

The single Sand Diego:
Fishing Knots, San Diego Knot, Reverse Clinch Knot

The double Sand Diego is the same knot except you double the line up when you tie it. So you end up with 3 tags that get cut off in the end (two of them form a loop). Another nice thing about the DSD is that you can put 10 or 4 winds in it and it still comes out great. 10 winds gets a bit tough to cinch cleanly but they still work great. One down fall to the DSD is their size, this is where a Double Improved Clinch knot would work better in my book if it will tie well.

Here is a photo:


Here is a 10 wind DSD, hah:



I love the Double San Diego. I have lost very few fish to this knot, usually when a fish is lost its due to not retying after several fish. I do know this though do not pass the doubled up line through the eye twice, it will fail for sure. I lost several fish in mexico last year because I was being stupid. Once I figured out what I was doing wrong I did not loose anymore fish. I have also fished the double San Diego using light lines down to 2# test. I have caught tons of 5-7# Stripers at Lake Powell fishin 2# using the double San Diego on a large loop for wear resistance.

A lot of people really like the double Uni as well. I’m not a big fan of the double Uni. I think it cinches down too tight and does not cinch as cleanly as a double San Diego. I think that the double San Diego is a "softer knot" and does not cause the line to dig into itself as much when it is really cinched down. Maybe I’m just not tying the double Uni well enough.

I am working on developing a test station for knots using some sand and a bucket. Fill the bucket full of sand until the knot breaks then weigh the bucket. I’m still trying fine a good scale to weigh the bucket with. I would love to test some splices as well. I see a lot of data online but so much of it sounds like poor experimentation due to the crazy deviations in the results. I think a knot should be able to be tied with only 5% deviation from knot to knot. So I would like to set up my own test. I will post some results when the day comes with actual numbers, averages, and standard deviations. I would also like to play around wire gauge of the hooks to see how a lighter gauge hook performs against a heavy gauge hook

If any of you know a link for some knot testing that has been done using a tighter scientific method please post it. I would love to see the data

Time to pack for Mexico.

[Alter Ego]

Actually, the Irwin knot is a bit different than that. Howard (modrealtor) put up a great post on the knot. Here is the link: http://www.caplix.com/pdf/Pictures/erwin%20knot.pdf

He and I just got back from a 10 day trip. I caught 5 up to 273 and had no failures on this knot tied in 130# fluoro.

I have a new favorite knot.

[tunarado]

That is an awesome knot. Its simple, fast, used two passes thorugh the eye which I am convinced as being vital for any knot, and its tiny.

I can see where that knot is better. The wrap is over the main center hoops which is 4 lines total. This would reduce the amount of compression dammage on the line and spread it out over these 4 lines reducing the amount of self induced damage as the knot is pulled tighter and tighter.

After reading the results from this knot and seeing it in action im sold.

Thanks heaps for the info, this was well worth the post.

[titan05]

The Irwin is almost a Double San Diego with one exception

On the San Diego you go through the bottom and come straight up to the top loop and pull

The Irwin has a twist or cross over the top because you finish the way your top finger is pointing.

I use them both and they both work great.

Just be careful not to tighten the knot high as it will "burn " the mono when you pull it down. Equal pressure....pull down and then tighten down low

[tunarado]

I have been fiddeling with this knot for about an hour now. I find that the way you pass the tag through the eye hoops and then the back end hoops is important. The line needs to have that extra half twist to come out clean. I found if I go through the hoops at the eye from the back side and then go thorugh the hoops the opposite direction it does not bunch up right. If you go the same direction as your finger it cinches much better and cleaner. Like you said use the tag end to first bunch up the twists and then tighten the main line pulling the knot down towards the hook resutling in that funky hoop sticking out the end of the knot. Then when you tighten the main line that hoop pulls tight and makes for a sexy looking knot.

[Alter Ego]

Originally Posted by tunarado

I find that the way you pass the tag through the eye hoops and then the back end hoops is important. The line needs to have that extra half twist to come out clean.

Exactly. When you are pulling on the main line, you will feel and see the knot "pop" into the correct configuration. If not, it needs to be redone.

You are correct, it makes a very clean, and "sexy" knot.

[Rodless_Jim]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Exactly. When you are pulling on the main line, you will feel and see the knot "pop" into the correct configuration. If not, it needs to be redone.

You are correct, it makes a very clean, and "sexy" knot.

I learned the Erwin knot about four years ago, and as far as I'm concerned, there's just no better knot to use to tie on terminal tackle for any weight line over 30#. I like the single san diego jam for 15# and 20#, and if the fish are not too big, and not in open water, I use the san diego for 30# too. But for stubborn fish, or fishing in any kind of structure, the Erwin is best. And as soon as I get up to using 40# line and over, it's all I'll use.

One of the very best things about the knot is its small profile. Done right, it cinches up very small and nothing is any more secure.