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Old Apr-01-2009, 10:27 AM   #37
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"I just think we need to crack the code to getting them to bite. A lot of guys think it will be a daytime deep drop tactic and a lot of guys think it's nighttime trolling."

"I'm not sure, but I do know we have a lot of big swords here and they have to be eating a lot to get to that size. We just need to figure out how to get a bait in front of them when they are HUNGRY."

"Someone will crack the code here sooner or later. It's just a matter of time."


Here's your code (posted several times here before):
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8-day PSAT track of a SoCal sword from several years ago. In subsequent discussions with Dr. Chugey Sepulveda, the above pattern has been the same for all the fish they've tagged in SoCal. What does the chart tell you?

* Look at the lower chart of the light levels. Other than two upward spikes, it's relatively constant around the 90 level. This reflects both day and night activity, so you could conclude that the swordfish prefers a relatively constant level of light.

* Look at the upper chart of the depth levels. It's a fairly consistent up and down pattern of movement. On the top end the fish is in the upper 25 to 30 meters of the water column; on the bottom end the fish is down at 250 to 400 meters.

* Regardless of depth, the recorded light level stayed the same. One could concluded the fish adjusted its depth to stay in the preferred level of light.

* Note that there are two instances where the light level spiked upwards significantly. Note that these upward spikes in the light level coincided with brief upward spikes in the depth all the way to the surface. One could conclude that these were daytime surfacing events.

* Over the 8-day track, the fish was on the surface twice. If I were playing the odds to increase my chances of success on a SoCal sword, knowing that few swordfish on the surface eat a presented bait and that a very small percentage of the time they are on the surface during the daytime, I would not focus on baiting daytime swords.

* Your best odds would be trolling at night and second would be deep dropping during the day. Trolling at night offers the best odds because you to cover more water area while staying in the sword zone. Unlike the South East Coast of Florida, we in SoCal do not have a Gulf Stream to drift in and cover water area at 3 to 5 knots. You could drift shallow baits at night off SoCal, but you'd be hoping for a fish to swim to you and eat. The other problem is that our waters are infested with small makos and blue sharks and they will get to your bait first. Proper trolling methods can reduce the interaction with sharks while keeping your offering in the sword zone and covering more water area.

* Deep dropping could work off SoCal. It would eliminate the makos and blue sharks as they do not normally dive down to 300 or 400 meters. I rate it second in odds of success because you'd cover no area. You're hoping the fish swims to you and eats.

* I know some guys got a bigeye thresher last year deep dropping to 800' during the day on Avalon Bank. A couple years ago we got a bigeye thresher trolling at night at 65' on the downrigger at the 277 which we had fished during the day for marlin. During the day the 277 was infested with makos of which we got two on the marlin jigs at 7 knots. Returned at night and got the bigeye within 30 minutes of trolling. No makos though. Tagging studies have shown the SoCal makos to hang in the top 12 meters at night; swordfish in the top 25 to 30 meters, thus my depth choice.

These are just my conclusions. I've put in about 8 or 9 nights so far over the course of about 7 years, so it could hardly be called a concerted effort. I believe that I have it dialed in as to depth at night, just need to put in more time. I will also try the higher speed surface trolling with the transformers on the assumption that I can avoid the makos while still putting my offerings in the sword zones. It's hard to convince people to go as most want to jack on easy fish such as albacore and dodos. I've been there and done that.

Last edited by BiggestT; Apr-01-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 10:41 AM   #38
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Kill a mako, save a swordfish...

Bite the tail off and they are owned...
I have seen that one several times.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 07:33 PM   #39
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So then you agree with killing baby swordfish,that is fine.I do not agree with it but to each his own.Since you have so much experience with this animal I would take a shot in the dark and say you think it is the same fight too.
Just because they've boated that many fish it means they killed them huh? One of my friends down there is working with Mote Marine in Marathon tagging. But since you know everything I guess you already knew that.

Over the last three seasons they've only taken about 10 fish. 50% or more of those were ones that were dead on the surface. But you already knew that too right?

Part of the results from that study are suggesting that there are two distinct populations of swordfish on the eastern seaboard. They think that these fish caught deep during the day may spend their entire lives at depth and don't come up to feed at night. The tissue sampling they're doing is helping to map the populations to confirm their suspicions. But you knew that too. And I bet you're positive something similar couldn't possibly happen on the west coast...

Come on dude... You're right, I don't know shit about fishing. I don't know why I even bothered suggesting trying to adapt a sucessful method of catching swordies. I mean you yourself have already done it how many times? I'm sure the FL guys got it right on the second try because it was so easy. What was I thinking...
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Last edited by Smudge; Apr-01-2009 at 07:49 PM.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 09:35 PM   #40
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That is pretty impressive,an average of 3.3 fish killed a season at 600 pounds a piece.Bravo for those guys.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 09:52 PM   #41
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Just because they've boated that many fish it means they killed them huh? One of my friends down there is working with Mote Marine in Marathon tagging. But since you know everything I guess you already knew that.

Over the last three seasons they've only taken about 10 fish. 50% or more of those were ones that were dead on the surface. But you already knew that too right?

Part of the results from that study are suggesting that there are two distinct populations of swordfish on the eastern seaboard. They think that these fish caught deep during the day may spend their entire lives at depth and don't come up to feed at night. The tissue sampling they're doing is helping to map the populations to confirm their suspicions. But you knew that too. And I bet you're positive something similar couldn't possibly happen on the west coast...
First I've heard of two different populations of swordfish on the eastern seaboard, including fish that stay deep all the time. Doesn't make sense as they are still cold blooded animals and eventually need to rise up into warmer water for thermo regulation. Can you post any results of the tagging studies?
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Old Apr-01-2009, 10:21 PM   #42
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That is pretty impressive,an average of 3.3 fish killed a season at 600 pounds a piece.Bravo for those guys.
Come on dude. They weigh the smaller fish during the process of sampling. They have the whole cradle sling rig. Most of these are in the 30-60lb range. Pups.

Obviously they can't pull the bigger ones out of the water when it's a tag and release but they tape or estimate as best they can. The deep drop fish don't come up green like one of the surface monters you guys bait.

Ty hasn't gotten any over 250 that I know of, and I never suggested that he had. He gets fish on a regular basis that's my point...
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Old Apr-01-2009, 10:29 PM   #43
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First I've heard of two different populations of swordfish on the eastern seaboard, including fish that stay deep all the time. Doesn't make sense as they are still cold blooded animals and eventually need to rise up into warmer water for thermo regulation. Can you post any results of the tagging studies?
I don't think they have anything published yet. But I can ask. I'm sure I'll be down there again this fall if I ever get off of this deployment. I was there last March hoping to get on the water with them to see it done in person, but the weather didn't cooperate. We ended up bbqing and talking about everything instead. I even tried getting out with another friend that deep drops in Duck Key later that week, but it was still too nasty to get out to the Humps.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 10:39 PM   #44
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I think we both have made our point.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 10:42 PM   #45
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I don't think they have anything published yet. But I can ask. I'm sure I'll be down there again this fall if I ever get off of this deployment. I was there last March hoping to get on the water with them to see it done in person, but the weather didn't cooperate. We ended up bbqing and talking about everything instead. I even tried getting out with another friend that deep drops in Duck Key later that week, but it was still too nasty to get out to the Humps.
That's swordfishing in Florida: many days way layed onshore due to wind against current = nasty conditions on the grounds. Makes it a tough, unreliable fishery for the traveling angler.
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Old Apr-01-2009, 11:02 PM   #46
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Fair enough. Sorry for getting pissy.

I know you are a very accomplished fisherman who's been at it a lot longer than me and you and Steve are both a weath of knowledge and we do honestly appreciate it.

Sorry about the arguing. That's not what Fishdope is about and I apologize.
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Old Apr-02-2009, 02:47 PM   #47
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Thanks all for posting information. Talk about a challenge. I'd be down for any swordfish trip. Seems to be a certain Mystique about it. Definately the ultimate.

Rubberhook2 - Those pictures are awsome. Hell of a story to. Looks like i was born way to late. Id give anything to catch a swordfish on rod and reel.

If they have 500+ lb hogs out here in So Cal... That just makes me crazy. Its nothing like the movie "perfect storm" Sounds like a real expierience. If anyone goes out chasing swordfish and need a boat ginny. Id be down whenever.
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Old Apr-02-2009, 06:18 PM   #48
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Thanks all for posting information. Talk about a challenge. I'd be down for any swordfish trip. Seems to be a certain Mystique about it. Definately the ultimate.

Rubberhook2 - Those pictures are awsome. Hell of a story to. Looks like i was born way to late. Id give anything to catch a swordfish on rod and reel.

If they have 500+ lb hogs out here in So Cal... That just makes me crazy. Its nothing like the movie "perfect storm" Sounds like a real expierience. If anyone goes out chasing swordfish and need a boat ginny. Id be down whenever.
Well Gino, I normally depart Dana Point when I do target the swords. Normal time to focus on them is July to October. So let me know. I just need experienced hands only as targeting swords at night affords no room for learning curves.
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