Trolling a spread inshore for yellows?

triton2486 · Jun-12-2008, 03:22 PM

I thought I would put this post in Fred's area since it has to do with offshore technique.

I was just wondering since spreader bars, toads, and other teasers work well offshore to attract fish. How would it work for big yellows inshore. I've never seen anyone break out the outriggers and pull a spread of teasers off the back of the boat outside the La Jolla Kelp. Maybe over kill, BUT DOES IT WORK WELL?

johndtuttle · Jun-12-2008, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by DaGOOSE on another thread:

Oside 6/12 Evening Session with Spiders

Headed out with Scarleg for an evening session today hopeful to break the flattie Jonah curse. Launched at 4:00 and dropped the Spider rigs in 30 minutes later.

Worked in 40 feet for an hour and couldn't keep the sandies off the rig. Moved out to 60 feet for more of the same with a few calicos in the mix. Then we got a decent biter, a 25 inch model flattie that we dumped at the gaff...........arghhhhhhhhh.........the curse! Got one more chance a bit later and got a nice 25 inch fish. Then many more bass.

Called it a day at 7:30. All told, we got 20 plus sand bass, 2 calicos, and 1 legal flattie (almost 2) in three hours.

It was a fine evening on the water and we finally cured the Jonah curse!

Tight Lines,

Rick

Attached Images

johndtuttle · Jun-12-2008, 09:57 PM

couldn't figure out how to add this after i ninja'd that post but anyways, I realize your thinking surface trolling but the fact of the matter is anything that will hit a trolled bait will hit spreader bars and dredges (just more often than single lures). Fred's got plenty of pictures of Yellowtail caught on his bars too. They will work and catch as many or more fish than anything else trolled imo.

I have not used Mr. Archer's bars, but have pulled others and the only problem i had inshore with them is Sierra tearing the shit out of them. Could be worse.

Is it overkill? I think the outriggers may be a little much as you are targeting structure and can put the bars near the paddies etc. with a little seamanship, its not like your in the middle of the ocean blindly trying to attract fish from great distances to your spread. But if you're catching fish or in open water, who's to talk?

DaGoose · Jun-13-2008, 06:22 AM

Hello John and Triton,

The spider bars work GREAT! Thanks for your help John. I was totally in the dark about spreader bars in general until just a few weeks ago when I got my first Spider from Fred. At first I was nervous about tangles and the weight because I had only seen the clunky metal stuff. The Spiders weigh practically nothing and you can't tangle them if you try to.

I'm absolutely convinced they will work in any water column and can't wait to try them inshore like you mentioned for yellows and white seabass. We only troll two rods. Like John said, it doesn't need to be an elaborate offshore setup. Heck, I'd just throw on an inline torpedo sinker, drop em in, and troll the edges. It's that simple. No need to buy bait either.

I slow troll the bottom of the water column (bounce balling) targeting halibut. Hooked a big Thresher shark my first trip out with my only Spider in 68 feet of water. Unfortunately my mainline broke and I lost it. Quickly restocked and have been out three times since. The results have been amazing (4 legal flatties and too many bass to count). I'm not targeting bass and surely would catch more if we did. Numerous free swimmers have followed the Spider to the boat.

Now I'm kicking myself for being in the dark for so long. I hope that others who visit Fred's "cave" listen to what he says. He opened my eyes to a whole new world of opportunities and I'm just scratching the surface. He's a fine man too!

Thank you Fred!

Rick

triton2486 · Jun-13-2008, 09:16 AM

I think the bass would be the nuisance. I'm going to try it next week.

johndtuttle · Jun-13-2008, 09:51 AM

DaGoose was bouncing his rig on the bottom targeting Hali with the bass as a side catch i believe. Like he said, find the appropriate torpedo weight simply rigged inline and you'll be in any depth in the column you want and off the bottom where your target species might be.

You'll probably get hammered by Bonito and Barracuda mostly, beats sitting at the computer! But you'll definitely have a shot at WSB and home guard Yellowtail too if you come across them. No doubt about it.

**Fred Archer** · Jun-14-2008, 03:37 AM

REMEMBER, GUYS, THAT WHILE BASS MIGHT BE A "NUISANCE" TO THE EFFETE HALIBUT/WSB/YELLOWTAIL AFICIANADOS, CATCHING EVEN A DOZEN OF THEM, ESPECIALLY NICE ONES LIKE GOOSE AND SCARLEG HAVE BEEN CATCHING, WOULD BE A GREAT DAY ON THE WATER FOR MANY FOLKS, TO SAY NOTHING OF TWENTY OF THEM IN THREE AND A HALF HOURS! YOU CAN INCLUDE ME IN THAT GROUP, THANK YOU. LOT'S OF ACTION MIXED IN WITH A COUPLE OF BUTTS, WSB, OR 'TAILS IS MY KIND OF FISHING, SAME AS OFFSHORE, WHERE UNLIKE SOME, I'M HAPPY AS HELL TO CATCH TUNA, DORADO AND WAHOO, INSTEAD OF JUST THE MARLIN THAT THAT KIND OF SNOB ONLY CARES ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS AND AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, EVERYBODY SHOULD DO IT THE WAY THAT THEY LIKE. ME? I'LL BE SAYING, "DANG! ANOTHER BIG CALICO! DOGGONE BYCATCH! UH, OH! THIS AIN'T NO BASS! NOT A CALICO ONE, AT LEAST. RICK, BETTER GRAB THE GAFF AND SEE IF THERE'S ROOM IN THE COOLER!"

AS FAR AS INSHORE YELLOWS AND FOR THAT MATTER, EARLY RUN DORADO, WHICH I HAVE CAUGHT A MILE OFF OF DANA MORE THAN ONCE, THE TAILS CAN ACTUALLY BECOME A PAIN IN THE ASS IF YOU ARE TRYNG TO CATCH DORADO. I CAN RECALL A TIME RUNNING A BIG BERT FOR A CLIENT WHEN WE RAN OFFSHORE AND CAUGHT PILES OF ALBACORE AND YELLOWTAIL. THE FIRST STOP WAS A FIVE FISH MULTIPLE ON LITTLE MEATBALL BARS LONG BEFORE DAWN. STRETCH FOGERTY WAS IN THE PIT WHEN WE CROSSED THE GOOD BREAK THAT I WAS LOOKING FOR AT SOMETHING LIKE FOUR AMEN. EVERYBODY ELSE WAS SLEEPING, BUT I TOLD STRETCH TO PUT THE BARS OUT BECAUSE I WAS METERING FISH. HE HAD NEVER TROLLED AT NIGHT AND LOOKED UP TO THE BRIDGE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THAT TO ME AFTER THE LAST BAR WAS OUT, BUT ALL FIVE WERE ON BEFORE HE COULD SAY A WORD. WE MURDERED 'EM AND HEADED BACK EARLY.

ON THE WAY IN, SEAN, THE BOAT OWNER, MENTIONED THAT HE HADN'T CAUGHT A DORADO ON THE BOAT YET AND I TOLD HIM, "LET'S SEE IF WE CAN CHANGE THAT ON OUR WAY HOME." HE REPLIED THAT THERE HAD BEEN NONE REPORTED BY THE LANDING OR ANYONE ELSE. I SAID, "DOESN'T MATTER. THERE IS USUALLY AN EARLY RUN OF THEM IN ALONG THE BEACH, AND THE TERRAFIN CHART (VERY NEW THEN) TELLS ME THEY SHOULD BE THERE NOW." THEY WERE. ONLY A MILE OR TWO OFF THE POINT. SEVERAL DIFFERENT PATTIES THAT WERE LOADED WITH THEM AND YELLOWTAIL.

FIRST PASS BY ONE WITH THE BARS BROUGHT A HUGE, MIXED SCHOOL FROM UNDER THE PATTY AND WE GOT SOME OF EACH. THAT TOOK CARE OF THE FIRST DORADO FOR THE BOAT. I SPUN AND MADE ANOTHER PASS, THIS ONE FASTER AND WE GOT COVERED BY DORADOS. (THAT, BY-THE-WAY, IS HOW YOU ELIMINATE THE TAILS AND CATCH JUST DORADOS. THE TAILS CAN'T CATCH THE FAST BARS, BUT THE DORADOS HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL. NO SHIT. WORKS LIKE A CHARM.)

SEAN NOTICED A CATTLEBOAT HEADING HELLBENT IN OUR DIRECTION AND SAID, "HURRY! HERE COMES A CATTLEBOAT! HE'LL HAVE LIVE BAIT AND WILL SHUT THE BITE OFF!" THE RULE WHEN I HIRED GUN RUN ANYBODY'S BOAT IS THAT I CALL THE SHOTS, PERIOD! I SAID, "THAT'S JIMMY ON THE HELENA. I CALLED HIM IN SO HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO CATCH THE FIRST DORAOD OF THE YEAR FOR THE LANDING. I'M SAVING THAT ONE PATTY FOR HIM, BUT HE MIGHT NOT GET ONE OF THAT BUNCH OF DORADO UNDER IT, OR THE YELLOWTAILS EITHER. THEY ARE EATING THE MEATBALL BARS BECAUSE THEY ARE ON LITTLE BAIT AND HE PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE IT."

SURE ENOUGH, JIMMY PULLED UP, GOT RIGHT ON THE FISH, THE CHUM AND LIVE BAIT FLEW, THEN THE IRON...AND NOT A SINGLE FISH GOT CAUGHT. HE WENT OVER TO ANOTHER PATTY THAT WAS LOADED WITH FISH AND ZERO LOVE. HE AND I WERE TALKING ON THE RADIO AND HE ASKED ME TO MAKE ANOTHER RUN BY THE FIRST PATTY WITH THE BARS, EVEN THOUGH WE WERE DONE AND CUTTING THE FISH WE'D JUST CAUGHT. I DID. WE GOT COVERED UP AGAIN, THEN WENT HOME. JIMMY STAYED ON THOSE FISH FOR A LONG TIME. HE DIDN'T CATCH A ONE.

THIS WAS NOT AN ISOLATED OR UNUSUAL INCIDENT. A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION OCCURED ABOARD DAN GRIBBLE, BIG KAHUNA FROM BOSUN'S LOCKER'S BIG RIVIERA ONE DAY, BUT IT WAS LOCAL BIGEYE, NOT DORADO, THAT WE SPED UP TO CATCH, INSTEAD OF YELLOWTAIL AFTER YELLOWTAIL.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS...YOU FISH SUPERBARS AND SPIDERS IN THE SAME PLACES AND FOR THE SAME FISH AS YOU DO RAPS, BAIT, OR WHATEVER - THE DIFFERENCE IS SIMPLY THAT YOU WILL CATCH ONE HELLUVA LOT MORE FISH ON THE BARS. PERIOD. END-OF-STATEMENT.

SUPERBARS IN PARTICULAR ARE INCREDIBLY BAD MEDICINE FOR PATTY FISH. AMONG OTHER THINGS, YOU CAN RUN AN OUTRIGGER TROLLED MEATBALL BAR RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF A PATTY AND NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN, IT WILL RUN RIGHT OVER IT WITH NO SNAGGING AND IT GETS BLASTED ALL TO HELL WHEN IT HITS THE WATER ON THE OTHER SIDE. HARD TO BELIEVE, I KNOW, BUT IF I TOLD YOU HOW HARD THE BARS ARE TO TANGLE WHEN TROLLING, YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE THAT EITHER: UNTIL YOU CHECKED OUT THE VIDEO, THAT IS. GO AHEAD, LOOK AT IT AGAIN AND THEN THINK ABOUT WHAT I'M CLAIMING ABOUT THEM NOT HANGING UP ON A PATTY.

YET ANOTHER ADVANTAGE OF BARS IS THAT YOU CAN "LEAD" WHOLE SCHOOLS OF YELLOWS AWAY FROM THE TANGLING SANCTUARY OF A PATTY BY SIMPLY SPEEDING UP WHEN YOU SEE THEM COMING - WHICH YOU WILL (SHIVER!). THAT DOESN'T SPOOK OR DISCOURAGE THEM...IT JUST MAKES THEM COME HARDER AND THEY ARE A LONG WAY FROM GETTING BACK TO THAT KELP WHEN YOU SLOW DOWN A BIT AND LET THEM CLIMB ALL OVER THE BARS - WHICH THEY WILL DO WITH A VENGEANCE! AND BY THEN THAT PATTY REFUGE IS A DISTANT MEMORY. GIMME THE GAFF!

THIS ALSO APPLIES TO 'TAILS ON REEFS AND OTHER COVER AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GUYS DOWN AT FISHERMENS FLEET DOWN IN LA PAZ HAVE BEEN DOING TO GET HUGE, REEF ROCK DIVER 'TAILS AWAY FROM THEIR ROCKY HOMES AND NOT LETTING THEM GET BACK TO THEM BECAUSE IT'S WAY TOO LONG A RUN BY THE TIME THEY GET HOOKED.

RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE. SUPERBARS HAVE ARRIVED OUT HERE. MORE AND MORE FISHERMEN, GOOD ONES LIKE GOOSE AND SCARLEG, ARE DISCOVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT THEM - THAT THEY ARE THE BEST DAMNED LURES THAT YOU CAN FISH WITH, THEY COST ONE HELLUVA LOT LESS THAN BAIT IN THE VERY NOT-SO-LONG-RUN BECAUSE THEY LAST FOREVER, THEY ARE LIGHT AND EASY TO HANDLE, TROLL AND FIGHT FISH WITH. SUPERBARS WHEN THE FISH ARE UP TOP, SPIDERS WHEN THEY ARE DOWN.

"DFA...DEATH FROM ABOVE".

AND "DFB...DEATH FROM BELOW".

SIMPLE! AND THIS IS THE YEAR.

WANT TO BOUNCE OR TROLL A TORPEDO FOR DEEPER FISH, BUT ON LIGHT TACKLE? TAKE A LOOK...(THANKS, GOOSE AND VULPINUS MATT.)