[Fred Archer]

Release big tunas? At first that thought will sound outrageous to some fishermen, but actually will likely become necessary if you are fishing Mexican waters in particular, you reach the legal boat limit fast, which is often the case if you are fishing good spreads of the right lures, in which case it can happen on the first multiple stop. Right then and there, you would be wise to not only know how to do it right, but to do so. Mexico is the wrong place to get busted for breaking Pesca laws and the fines are huge and boat seizures not only possible, but a very real thing that I saw more than once down in Cabo.

And besides, as good American citizens I believe that we should respect the laws of other countries, regardless of the severity of the penalties, not just because of them. For example, the Mexican limit on tuna was and probably still is five per boat...not per person, but per boat. Now, there is no doubt that there are some boats, both Mexican and regretfully, gringo too, that ignore this and other limits.

This isn't such a big deal for the Mexican guys, because truth-be-told, many of them have friends and relatives who are involved with Pesca and besides, they are Mexicans and often get a warning, instead of the enforcement hammer that a gringo is for sure going to get whacked with. All that I can say about that is that it is bad, bad, expensive news that will make you wish you had never seen, let alone caught, those over-limit fish if and when you get busted! Please try to avoid that.

The final reason is more an ethical one than a legal matter. It has to do with the size of the various tunas we caught down in Cabo. This used to be a vibrant, prolific fishery that is now a mere shadow of what it was because of gross overfishing by (IMO) both the commercial and the sportfishing fleets, with the major blame on the commercials, but sport fishermen who ignore the laws and on top of that, those who do so on the bigger primo spawner fish, bear a share of the blame.

My boat respected the laws on limits on all species, and we took a step further when it came to the bigger ones, on up to the real cows. We limited our out-of-town charters to one big tuna kill (we'd fish them for as long as anyone wanted, but wouldn't kill another big one) and this policy was made clear, along with our no-kill marlin one, before anyone signed up for a trip.

This was done for several reasons. First, most visitors didn't have the means or the intention to take frozen fish home with them. Most looked forward to having some pristine fish available for a meal or two at their hotels, or a restaurant. One, 150-300# tuna was way more than enough for that and we could care for and prep that fish "sashimi grade style" for the ultimate in good eats. 1,200-3,000# was a whole different matter. Selling those fish is absolutely against the law in Mexico, and distributing it throughout poor neighborhoods sounds like a noble idea, but is and would be a huge, time-consuming project in itself. No hard-working charterboat crew could ever dream of finding the time or even energy to do that sort of thing between trips.

As an aside, we did do some things to help less fortunate locals. The best and most rewarding was taking local kids out for a morning or afternoon of fishing when we didn't have a charter and our maintenance schedules allowed it. We took them nearshore fishing, for the most part loaded them up with yellowtail, sierras, schooly tunas, barrilette blancos (Pacific bonitos) and some not-so-schooly dorados. Then we sent them home with their cleaned, but not filleted fish because to a kid, they were proud as hell of their catches and no matter how big the fish were, or how small the Mexican kids were, they wanted to parade down the docks and through town, showing off the fish that they had caught as they went.

Okay, so we released a lot of tuna on a regular basis; not just schooly fish, but many big ones based on our "one big tuna" policy. The smaller ones are easy if you use big, longer shanked hooks like the 10 and 12/0 3407DT Mustads that I prefer when it comes to J-hooks and you reduce or remove the barbs. The trick here is to first, always wear gloves, like those orange ones you see everywhere. This is to protect your hands, which will taking a beating otherwise. The next step is to leader the fish up close, reach down and grab the lure or squid chasebait and hook, lift the fish out of the water, turn the lure and hook upside down and drop and lift. This will pop the fish off 99% of the time. In fact, most will come off as soon as you turn the hook upside down as you lift them. A second "pump" will take care of any that don't release the first time. That's all there is to it.

Big fish are different and require a different technique to protect both the fish and the leaderman. I recently had a conversation with a fellow by the name of Brian Seay, who fished with us several times down in Cabo 8-10 years ago. He had some great fishing, but this guy is hard core big game experienced and like most guys like that, he picked up a lot of tips from the crew and me during his trips. He was the kind of guy who I'd look down from the tower and see working with and watching and comparing notes with my boys while they rigged ballyhoo, prepared the SuperBars, or whatever. Curious, open-minded and smart - my kind of client and the kind of fisherman who I respect and learn from, too! And so, we have remained friends for many years. And you know something, I am still learning things from him to this day!

One of the things that I'm pretty sure that he picked up on was our release methods on tunas, big and small. He runs his own boat down off of Louisiana in the pelagic rich waters down there and for a long time now, has turned more and more to releasing most of the tuna that he catches. He wrote to me that, "I have cleaned out enough freezers and thrown away too many packs of burned tuna to want to keep on doing a foolish, wasteful thing like that anymore."

So, end of my part of this thread, here's a picture Brian sent me of a nice tuna, gaffed in the mouth with a small gaff, the way that he and we gaff them in the water, usually with an even smaller gaff, but Brian wanted the shot to be clear and informative and so used a bigger gaff, in order to control them and reach down and pop the hook out for a fast release. I shouldn't have to warn anybody to be careful of the gaff point (we used a dulled one and went for "membrane shots", just above the jaw line) while you are down there and keep the boat moving forward as you do this, but I will. I have learned in my old age that this sort of thing should be pointed out because there are those who will do it wrong and maybe get poked or bitten...you do not want a big tuna biting you, I promise!

So there you have it, a little primmer from me and my old coonass buddy from down there is Looseeanny on how to release both small and large tuna for those days when you just can't keep 'em off those SuperBars and you want to stay within the law and maybe even ethical standards, but want more of those explosive multiple bar attacks.

Thanks, Brian...great shot!

Sportsmanship, ethics and responsible use of the resource may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I know that it is for many of my fellow cave dwellers, so I thought that you might be interested in this.

The second pict, one rigger of flags only. A marlin release and four tuna kept and many released. The other rigger had the dorado, wahoo, and some more marlin flags. This is how charterboats tell each other what they caught on a given day. Means nothing to class boats whose clients book in advance.

A shot of bigeyes and yellowfins caught back in my old days of being a "pin hooker", or rod and reel commercial guy back east. That's a small fortune's worth of sashimi grade tuna, waiting for the tuna buyer. Frankly, I would love to see licensed sport fishermen have the right to sell their tunas and restrictions put on the seiner catch.

The most pristine, and thus most valuable sashimi grade tunas are caught by pin hookers and the money that they make goes right back into the economy and allows them to buy the best tackle and gear and spend their money on all of the other things that are associated with fishing offshore. Plus, I believe that the limits and laws would be easier for authorities to keep track of this way. Just MPO. And to show that I am no Tuna Hugger, but instead, a concerned fisherman who tracks what is happening with various fish resources and does what he can to help maintain them. That makes me greedy, not a Tuna Hugger.

[Jason]

Why not just grab the jig once leadered and cut the line? A fish that big can have my $4 hook.

[Fred Archer]

Jason,

The thing is, if you are a hardcore troller using the right stuff the right way, multiple hookups on tuna are the rule, not the exception. All tuna travel in schools, and if you are only getting singles or doubles out of most of your stops, you are doing something very wrong. That is also very common. And yes, I have the cure. It's in that book that you have and is in several other ones too.

Size doesn't matter when it comes to multiple troll stops...if the school is little guys, you load up on little guys and just shake them off once you have reached the five fish boat limit, which often happened on the first stop in Cabo and does up here and anywhere else, too. If they happened to be major units, they too loaded up. In fact, a school of big tunas is almost downright terrifying to watch when they blow up on a bar pattern! They are a lot more aggressive than the runts when they show up, the strikes are all surface ones and it looks like your wake is getting bombed! Bombs going off, people in the 'pit and reels screaming, me driving with my back to the bow, taking it all in from up in the tower and watching for that last bar to go down so I can back off some on the hammers. Exciting as hell!

Taking into account our self-imposed boat limit on big ones, that would mean if we got a sextuple (the tuna spread was eight bars), which wasn't rare at all, we'd have cut off twenty bucks worth of hooks on one big fish stop alone. A couple of stops like that and you have a small financial disaster on your hands. Plus, we're talking lures here, so each cut-off wouid mean a backup lure or a re-rig job, something you don't want your crew doing on a charter and something that you don't want to have to be doing at night, before the next day's charter.

Time and money...both important factors to charterboat operations.

Actually, we also had a lot of success with those ARC De-Hookers, which we tested for the company that makes them well before they came out on the market. Those are the ones that Guy Harvey is promoting (with no financial interest) and that NOAA has required on longliners for bycatch release. They are exceptionally good release tools and we could dump a big tuna off a barbless hook even faster with the ARCs than our other way.

The first shot is how the De Hooker grabs the hook and prevents it from re-hooking the fish when it is pushed out.

The second shot is a schooly getting popped off a bar chasebait. In practice, this is done with the fish in the water. We only pulled this one out to show how the ARC slides down and gets the hook.

The next shot is how you pinch the line against the handle after you capture it in the ARC pigtail, then slide it down to the hook and pop it out.

The last shot is a black marlin getting a two man ARC release. That fish looks tired, but it was a typical black...it was playing possum, like some of the big ones do, then jumped alongside after the hook was popped out and gave our angler a memory that I'm sure he will never forget! Me? I was up in the tower, on the hammers so we wouldn't be there when she came back down!

These things are terrific. They come in a bunch of sizes, right down to little stuff for trout, up to the big guns for marlin and sharks. They are GREAT for releasing makos, by-the-way, and even work on tail-hooked T-sharks and mouth-hooked ones too. Actually, I'd like to see them required for WSB and maybe even the T's.

Good point and thanks for bringing it up.

[Bada Bing]

Originally Posted by Fred Archer

For example, the Mexican limit on tuna was and probably still is five per boat...not per person, but per boat. Now, there is no doubt that there are some boats, both Mexican and regretfully, gringo too, that ignore this and other limits.

Are you sure about that??? If so, where can I find the reference? Anything I've been able to find refers only to limits per licence and using a point system with each licence only being allowed a total of 10 pts. (Tuna = 1 pt/fish, 2 dorado = 5 pts, 1 marlin or shark = 5 pts, etc)

[Fred Archer]

Bing,

Yes, I am sure that is what the Pesca laws were, and I don't think that they have changed. Yes, there is a ten fish boat total on tuna and dorado, but that limit used to be five max of each species and the dorado one might have even been cut, but I don't know that for sure. Besides my love for them, that was one of the reasons why we targetted and learned how to do a number of Baja wahoo, which don't fall in that particular category.

I suggest that you Google up Mexican Pesca regulations in English and double check. I will tell you one thing, if you violate those laws and they catch you, the fines are horrendous and I saw many a boat seized over just that down in Cabo...and the owners played hell getting them back. Beware!

Please let us know what you find out.

[SALTYDAWG]

Originally Posted by Bada Bing

Are you sure about that??? If so, where can I find the reference? Anything I've been able to find refers only to limits per licence and using a point system with each licence only being allowed a total of 10 pts. (Tuna = 1 pt/fish, 2 dorado = 5 pts, 1 marlin or shark = 5 pts, etc)

Bing, Those are the regs I've seen, And go by and I've been boarded by the Mexicans when I had more than 5 and they didnt say a word.
Fred, I beg to differ on that one

[Reus]

Originally Posted by Fred Archer

Bing,

Yes, I am sure that is what the Pesca laws were, and I don't think that they have changed. Yes, there is a ten fish boat total on tuna and dorado, but that limit used to be five max of each species and the dorado one might have even been cut, but I don't know that for sure. Besides my love for them, that was one of the reasons why we targetted and learned how to do a number of Baja wahoo, which don't fall in that particular category.

I suggest that you Google up Mexican Pesca regulations in English and double check. I will tell you one thing, if you violate those laws and they catch you, the fines are horrendous and I saw many a boat seized over just that down in Cabo...and the owners played hell getting them back. Beware!

Please let us know what you find out.

how do the LR boats get by with a 5 fish per person per day limit system?

[Bada Bing]

Sounds fishy to me Fred. So if i got 6 licenced guys on board, only 5 guys can keep 1 tuna each? Perhaps that's the way it was back in the day but definitely not in the last 12 years. that would be assinine! I think the sportys would have an issue with that too.

[Bada Bing]

The release topic is a good one nevertheless. I can only hope I have that problem this year.

[locobro]

That de-hooker looks great for Mako's, thanks for the heads up.

I have to admit it's been easier to bring some Mako's on board and let them take an ice bath rather than deal with trying to release them.

[Fred Archer]

I got bad news for you, Bing....

Read 'em and weep! English conversion (not by me) of present Pesca regs for all of Mexico. I lived by them for many years and back then, you could take five dorado. They have since cut that down too. This applies to boats as well as people...in other words, yes it is the boat limit. I would love to be wrong on this, but please check it out for yourself. I honestly don't have the time to.

BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS

In ocean waters and estuaries the limit is a total of ten fish per person per day, with no more than 5 catches of a single specie, except of the species of Marlin, Sailfish, Swordfish and Shark, of which only one specimen from this group is allowed per day, and which counts a five toward the overall 10 fish limit, or Dorado, Roosterfish, Shad, or Tarpon, of which only two samples from this group are allowed, and which count as five toward the overall 10 fish limit.

[carl]

You're reading that differently than me Fred. But, I'm still hoping Banana Bing is wrong so I can rub his nose in it when I see him tomorrow.

[Bada Bing]

Originally Posted by Fred Archer

I got bad news for you, Bing....

Read 'em and weep! English conversion (not by me) of present Pesca regs for all of Mexico. I lived by them for many years and back then, you could take five dorado. They have since cut that down too. This applies to boats as well as people...in other words, yes it is the boat limit. I would love to be wrong on this, but please check it out for yourself. I honestly don't have the time to.

BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS

In ocean waters and estuaries the limit is a total of ten fish per person per day, with no more than 5 catches of a single specie, except of the species of Marlin, Sailfish, Swordfish and Shark, of which only one specimen from this group is allowed per day, and which counts a five toward the overall 10 fish limit, or Dorado, Roosterfish, Shad, or Tarpon, of which only two samples from this group are allowed, and which count as five toward the overall 10 fish limit.

I'm sorry Fred but I'm a bit confused. What you've quoted is nothing more than what I have already stated and in that there is no reference to BOAT limits. If you don't have time to do the proper research don't make the statement. I got a feeling there's many out here who are gonna disagree with you on such an important piece of info. You are wrong Fred, do the research.

[Jaydog]

Mr. Archer you have quoted the truth but not read it unfortunately.

[BigJoe]

Having had many conversations about this subject with CONAPESCA San Diego, I can clearly verify it is a per person limit not a boat limit. The rule that is broken most often is the limit of fishing with only one rod/pole per angler. In addition there is a stipulation that only one hook be on that one line/rod/pole unless fishing for bottom fish in which case up to four hooks are allowed.

[Fred Archer]

You guys are right about the letter of the law, but Eric Bricston, among others, has posted reports of the Mex Navy stopping and busting people for the "boat limit" thing. And I know for a fact that that was the case in Cabo for a long time, but that may well have been a Port Captain's rules (somethng that can and does happen in Mexico), or whatever. Doesn't matter. If you guys are confident about the limits, and from what I am looking at now (and I read before I posted it, thank you. I wasn't about to change what the current law is and what my experience was.), you are right, I stand corrected and hope you all limit out on every trip.

And that "one rod per angler" thing is right too, but everyone, including me, violated that one in Cabo and I never heard of a single incident where it was enforced. I am sure that I wasn't the only one who didn't even know that law existed, and that included the Pesca guys.

Anyhoo, thanks for setting me straight.

[MikeyLikesIt]

Fred, I think you just blew the whole "know it all" complaint right out of the water....

[Rubberhook2]

When I fished Clipperton Island we would catch on average 15 large tuna per day per angler yet were only able to keep one due to fish hold limitations. Alot of those fish were hooked on jigs (PL 68's). The crew was very proficient in releasing these fish while at the same time getting your jig back. Similar to the release poles pictured above the crew would use the standard bamboo boat gaff. While the angler would keep the rod tip down and pull in the opposite direction the crewman would use the gaff point to wrap the exposed hook and pull in the opposite direction. A couple of tugs and the jig would just pop out and the tuna would swim away without ever having to be taken out of the water.

As far as the pic of the yellowfin gaffed through the roof of its mouth and removed from the water it sure seems there is a lot of blood pouring out of that fish onto the deck. I doubt that fish would actually survive if released.

[dru]

Originally Posted by Rubberhook2

As far as the pic of the yellowfin gaffed through the roof of its mouth and removed from the water it sure seems there is a lot of blood pouring out of that fish onto the deck. I doubt that fish would actually survive if released.

Thought the same thing...I don't see where stinking a sharp object into a fishes head results in the best release method. Sure, you could get lucky and not do damage, but the more likely result is the one pictured. I'm all for advice from knowledgeable fisherman, just don't see the jist of this technique.

[Fred Archer]

You guys are right about that one particular tuna probably not making it and that size gaff in that position being hard on the fish, but as I pointed out in my original post, a bigger gaff was used in the photo to give an idea of how it's done. I also said that in practice, we used a smaller, dull gaff (that nearly always slid over to the thin membrane at the outside edges of the mouth, where they did less damage than most hooks). And, of course, we never pulled fish out of the water, like in the picture. My crew got very, very good at this and that, combined with the barbless hooks that we used, mostly circles and always in hollow squids, resulted in very fast, clean releases that spared one helluva lot of tuna lives. Please know that I am the first to say, as I do in my books, "if you are going to release a fish, for cryin' out loud, release a healthy one!"

Those long range guys are so good with their gaffs, I suspect that some could gaff a fly off an elephant's ass without the elephant even knowing it! With a few exceptions, the average, or even pretty active private boater isn't in the same class.

We have been using those ARC DeHookers for a long time now and never use the original small, dull gaff anymore. Those things do the job better and faster and with less trauma for the fish than anything that I have ever seen, plus, when it comes to the sharks, I don't want a gaff anywhere near their faces for a lot of reasons. The ARC is just unbeatable for those puppies and the way they keep the hook from re-hooking a deeply hooked shark is terrific and not a lot of skill is required, which is nice too.

Thanks for the inputs. It's good to see some others out there who are interested in not only releasing big tunas, but healthy ones to boot. That's all good and I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear.

And that tuna in the picture did go in the box. He was just an unfortunate model. Pretty fish, though. Not a big one by LR standards, but not bad for us little boat people!

Here is how the chasebaits the I literally catch all of my tunas on and have for years, along with a cut-out of the entire rigging. Then, there is a cow with a tag in her back, about to get ARC'd. Check out how small that chasebait is and where the hook is...big tunas eat lots of little bait. It's whale food, after all. Good stuff for building strong bones and muscles, don'tchaknow?

[StillinScrubs]

I am glad to see that bloody decks is adding some comedy to the forums....this is funny.

[DaGoose]

Originally Posted by StillinScrubs

I am glad to see that bloody decks is adding some comedy to the forums....this is funny.

OK Albert, just what is it that's so funny?

The notion that a man can catch enough big tuna that he actually releases them or perhaps it's because you would never consider such an act...........

Do tell please!

Rick

[StillinScrubs]

BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS

In ocean waters and estuaries the limit is a total of ten fish per day, with no more than 5 catches of a single specie, except of the species of Marlin, Sailfish, Swordfish and Shark, of which only one specimen of either is allowed, and which counts a five toward the overall 10 fish limit, or Dorado, Roosterfish, Shad, or Tarpon, of which only two samples of each specie are allowed, and which count a five toward the overall 10 fish limit.***

[*** Note: As explained by the Department of Fisheries office in San Diego, this means that if you catch 1 marlin (5 points) and 1 dorado (5 points), you have reached your limit for the day.
Other examples of full Mexican limits would be: 2 dorado; 1 dorado plus 5 miscellaneous species; or, 1 roosterfish plus 1 dorado.-- B.A.R.]

Limit on inland bodies of water (rivers, lakes, dams, etc.) is five fish per day, whether of a single specie or in combination.
Underwater fishing is limited to five fish per day, using rubber band or spring type harpoons, and only while skin-diving.
There is no limit to the practice of "catch and release," as long as the fish that exceed the bag limit be returned to their environment in good survival condition.
Where sport-fishing is conducted from boats out at sea for longer than three days, the bag limit will be the equivalent of three times the amounts mentioned above.


I can google the correct limits.....I catch and release and I can catch plenty in a day....but I would only release a healthy fish, it is the responsible thing to do...but to imply to people that the above is a boats limit is PURE comedy.

[DaGoose]

Originally Posted by StillinScrubs

.I catch and release and I can catch plenty in a day....but I would only release a healthy fish, it is the responsible thing to do...but to imply to people that the above is a boats limit is PURE comedy.

StillinScrubs,

There is no "pure comedy" to be found in your post. Show some respect to those that deserve it.

Then go fuck thyself.

Best wishes towards that end.

Rick

BTW: How's the tuna bite in Nashville these days anyways?

[Reus]

Originally Posted by DaGoose

StillinScrubs,

There is no "pure comedy" to be found in your post. Show some respect to those that deserve it.

Then go fuck thyself.

Best wishes towards that end.

Rick

BTW: How's the tuna bite in Nashville these days anyways?

Gmoney! is to Captain Josh

as

DaGoose is to Fred Archer

SAT's anyone?

[Az.monkey]

Originally Posted by Reus

Gmoney! is to Captain Josh

as

DaGoose is to Fred Archer

SAT's anyone?

Nice one G !

Hey Fred, Thanks for the valuable information and for sharing your knowledge, some of us here do appriciate what you offer up and some are just tools.

[Jaydog]

Originally Posted by Az.monkey

Nice one G !

Hey Fred, Thanks for the valuable information and for sharing your knowledge, some of us here do appriciate what you offer up and some are just tools.

I'm a HO to be more specific, that's all I'm allowed to say.

[StillinScrubs]

Originally Posted by DaGoose

StillinScrubs,

There is no "pure comedy" to be found in your post. Show some respect to those that deserve it.

Then go fuck thyself.

Best wishes towards that end.

Rick

BTW: How's the tuna bite in Nashville these days anyways?

What? Are you kidding? You are kidding right? People left allcoast because of this type of behavior. No wonder bloodydecks is dying a slow death....

Rick...who do you work for? I would hate to have any of my business go that way.

[MikeyLikesIt]

you guys can take it to PM.......this internet fight is over.