Thoughts on downriggers when trolling tuna

[Fred Archer]

Ah, now, be nice, getoffmyback! Let the children play! Remember, it's the short bus that delivers the few losers among them here (you can tell by the "intelligent" things that they write) and they need to scribble their idiotic jibberish here so they don't finger-poop paint the walls at home, ya know? Think of having mercy on them like I do...as a public service of sorts.

But the bullshit isn't going to go on for long here. This is my forum and while legitimate disagreements and discussions and questions and commentary will always be welcome, assholes with nothing to contribute except displaying what jerkoffs they are and who scare off a lot of good-hearted, sincere fishermen who fear getting belittled or worked over by the turd hurlers are going to have to do their poop-painting somewhere else, not here.

Everybody gets a chance here. Then the ax falls and it's a forever ax...once you're gone, you are gone, baby. I know, I know, you won't miss us and we won't miss you, so it sounds like a good trade to me. Sooner or later it is my hope that we are going to have a nice collection of fishermen who gather here who respect the sport and one another, from beginner to expert. If that winds up being six people, or six hundred, it doesn't matter to me, because it will be a good place for all of us to be.

I have always felt that "forewarned is fair" and this is the last time that I am going to get riled up like this. I don't like it when I do it either, so from here on in, it's no comment, just cut, nice and clean.

[BiteMeFiji]

Hi Captain Archer,
Down here in Fiji, when we see tuna holding down deep, we run the usual surface spread with a spreader bar and bird in the middle of the spread. Then we put out a white or pink squid on a big trip-planer down and underneath the spread. This usually brings the first fish up and the rest usually follow. This way of fishing deeper might be of interest to those who don't like downriggers and want to troll at normal surface tuna speeds but are currently missing out on all those fish holding deep.
Regards,

[Fred Archer]

FijiMan,

Roger, roger. I never did get back to this thread or I would have said exactly what you are saying here about deep tuna. Tuna (all school fish actually, including such surprising species as wahoo and the smaller marlin and dorado too) are like chickens and play "follow the leader". Do something to get their attention, like the planer, a deep running, accoustically far-reaching deep teaser like a Toad, or in given circumstances, a lure on a downrigger, attract (Toad is awesome for that) or hook up a lure or bait fish down there and put the boots to him with the right kind of gear to do that with and big circle hooks that will not tear out, honk that puppy up to a big, fat spreaderbar pattern that they can see from far, far away, and it's hang onto your socks and jocks, troops, because you are about to arrive in Multiple City, Downtown! As in, the bars erupt and every reel starts screaming. I'm shaking just thinking about that scene!

Unfortunately, downriggers and planer fishing for pelagics, as incredibly good as it can be, are basically unknowns on the West Coast. I'm trying to change that, but damnit, one of the reasons that I didn't follow up here is that I was finishing up a new book with THE BEST text and graphics I have ever done on deep fishing and the tools and how to get the most out of them. The "damnit" part is I closed it, got the want to save? prompt, said "no" because I hadn't done anything on it for a half hour or so and my auto save is supposed to be set for every five minutes, but it didn't work this time and I lost three weeks of hard work, text and graphics! And Auto Recovery only brings the file back as it was three or four weeks ago.

So, I have to get back at it again, and hope that I can get it back to what it was. Nuts!

Oh, yes, once these folks out here learn how to use the planers, they are going to be downright amazed!

BUT THERE IS A HUGE "NEED TO READ" THAT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN OUT HERE FOR SOME REASON AND THE TRADITIONAL MEDIA DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT BIG GAME FISHING AND JUST KEEP SPEWING THE "SAME OLD, SAME OLD" OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Those things make the learning curve a steep and oft times difficult one.

But I keep trying and appreciate your help. Thank you so much for some real expert input.

Welcome to The Cave!

[BiteMeFiji]

Bit dark in here.
I believe fishing is an eternal learning curve and it you don't try stuff and listen to others, you won't learn anything. You will flat-line. If you are happy with that then good on you. If you want to get better, try stuff.
I had Bill Boyce and his IGFA Angelrs Digest camera people out here last year. Boys with toys. We tried a few whacky things just for fun. We tried circle hooks in skirted lures for wahoo. You know what - It bloody worked. Light drag, let the hoo scream off across the spread, not run too far as it doesn't think its hooked up, belly of the line and circle hook does its thing and there you go. Wahoo hooked perfectly in the corner of the jaw. How about that. Learned something.
Good luck with the book, let me know when you publish. Allways interested in learning new stuff.

[Double Z]

Fred, if your comment was in reference to my post, please realize it was a joke. I have a box of your bars and plan on adding the meatball deal to the spread this year. Also, I have, use and love my downriggers.

I like the fact they move threads with your info here. It makes them easy to find. This really is a good place for info. It is WAY toned down from before but it is still BloodyDecks. There are reasons we make fun of other boards....

[Fred Archer]

Z-Man,

Never fear, I saw the humor and got a kick out of it. That sort of thing is fun and a positive addition for the cave dwellers.

Damn! Did you have to mention those Meatball bars? Now I have to go look at that video again! Man, I love watching those pups do their thing and I double love the music from my old Land of Joy.

Funny thing out here compared to most other places; people don't read and don't seem to have the thirst for knowledge that many from other parts of the country and world do. Fish reports, though? They love 'em and used to pay a small fortune on the early telephone fish report services compared to the price of an instructional book. Not the how, but for the results only, as if everyone was born knowing how to catch whatever swims. Go figure!

I barely make it when it comes to selling books as is, but I'd starve in a few days if I had to rely on California book sales only. Talked to old friend Guy Harvey about this once at the Fred Hall Show. He told me that there seemed to be little interest in marine art too and that he was going to stop bringing much of it out here. T-shirts? Sold like a sumbitch! But they do that everywhere and other than collecting a commission on every one sold, Guy actually has nothing to do with the rag business, the art is what he cares about and it's a dog for him out here. Go figure again!

Neither one of us could figure out why art and literature are so weak out here, the most likely explanation for the latter being that people had way too many other things to do to bother spending the time to learn everything that they can about fishing and secondly, even Guy could see that the traditional media out here was mired in the past and to a huge extent, sportboat techniques and gear that, in turn, might convince people that books on fishing are just a repeat of the same ancient drivel - which many of the few around are.

Anybody who has read mine knows that's not true about them. In fact, with very few exceptions, if you want to find out the way that people did it twenty years ago, you can receive the very same advice being written today, again, with most of it applying to sportboat, not private boat fishing. You sure as hell aren't going to find ME writing about that old stuff, unless it is still valid.

That new, young Lamna fellow is one of the rare exceptions to the "blue and white iron crew". He's a fisherman first, a marine biologist second, and a true experimenter and leading edge guy who is willing to share what he knows. His chapters in New Shark Troller's Bible and Secrets of the West Coast Private Boat Pro's are well-written and informative as all get out, as are his articles in Pacific Coast Sportfishing. Keep an eye out for him!

Anyhoo, thanks Z-man, but I ain' gonna let you keep that downrigger thing to yourself, you hear? And planers? Hoo, daddy, some folks have got ya on those things!

[gottaflylee]

Ok guys, here is a planer perspective form the right coast...err east coast guys. Downriggers and planer rods are a big part of our style of meat fishing. There is a planer rod out most all the time on the Predator boat that I run. Wahoos, Tunas, Dolphin, Kings and even the lonely Sailfish will eat it. Oh ya, Tunas aren't afraid of # 9 wire either.
When the Tunas want to eat...they eat, wire or no wire, planer or no planer.
Now this this being said, downrigger balls here are for slow trolling only, less than 3 Kts. If we want to troll faster, we go to planers and there is only 1 planer to use for this, made in the USA...an "Old Salty". Why, cause every on is perfectly balanced so if you have it on wire or braid you can trip it.

Here is a video that was shot on a boat I ran for an owner last year, East coast style, where we ran out of room in the boat about 11:30 am and called it a day. 2 Tunas came on the planer rod that was a bridle system where you can take the planer off and winding the fish to the back of the boat.
Fred, hope you don't mine me sticking my 2 cents in here...
East coast Style...I hope...

http://videos./action/viewvideo/2100...ef=Gottaflylee

[Keta]

Downrigers are like dicks, once you figure out what they are for and how to use one you can't live without one.

there is only 1 planer to use for this, made in the USA...an "Old Salty".

Yup, I have several Old Salty planers, 2 for my downriggers, and like them. I had to upgrade to Scotty Electrics due to the increased pull but I've wanted electrics for years.

Fred,
I've been trying for several years to get the Oregon boys (Ifish when I was allowed to post there) to use downriggers for tuna but haven't had much success. Most are locked into fast trolling.

Downriggers work for deep halibut too.

[Fred Archer]

Keta,

You're too damned old to know anything! Danged old, know-it-all fart! Hah! Keep tryin' my man. It takes a thick skin, a lot of tongue biting and persistence to pass anything "new" on out here and back east too....and I have the battle scars to prove it!

Gottaflylee...For those who don't know him, he is an all-pro, top flight charterboater from the east coast. I am delighted to see him here and GottaMan, you are welcome here in the cave at any time. This is one of those "cross-pollenization guys" who can bring us some serious east coast wisdom and techniques.

I think the problem with the video is that BD isn't quite ready for them yet, but they are working on it. I would love to post our new Black Dog Video Productions vid here, but I'm not even going to try until BD is ready, because I don't think that they would be too crazy about having another major site's logo all over the place. Our Cappy AJ and Jason are working on this, so hopefully it will be "lights, cameras, action" soon. Those are two very talented dudes and I'm sure they'll get this place rocking soon. (Angus and AC/DC are warming up in the background.)

Meantime, welcome to the cave, cappy!

And the new book is almost ready to hunt...couple more days, I think. Not just one way, it will cover it all; east, west, Mexico, Carribean, Florida, up, down, and every other which way! (Da Box is even in there, Lee.)

[gottaflylee]

Cool Capt. Fred...very, very cool. Looking forward to the new book and hopeing to get a couple of the Spiders in the next week or 2. Thanks for the welcome to your "cave"...

[capnjackv]

We have had good luck albacore fishing with feathers on the old saltys pulled at 6.5 knots. We usually put a green/black or purple/black on and some days this was the only thing that stopped the boat, and stopped it several times.

[Baja Rattler]

Fred,
I have tried to use planers...but they were a bitch to trip...what's the "secret" to getting them to trip easily?

[gottaflylee]

Originally Posted by Baja Rattler

Fred,
I have tried to use planers...but they were a bitch to trip...what's the "secret" to getting them to trip easily?

B.R. We run ours on 80 Shaminos with braid. With all that I say here, do not slow the boat down. With the clicker on, throw it into full free spool for 3 sec. or so and then back into full drag and the planer, if an "Old Salty", it will trip. With the Penn Down riggers, I get a pair of gloves, hold the big spool and loosen the drag, let the spool go and suddenly stop it, it should trip. When running planers on straight line heavy Mono, cleated to the boat, lift the mono over your head and let go, when it slaps the transom it should tip.
Hope what I wrote here makes since to you all...

[iclypso]

Originally Posted by TunaBully

Many of experts I have spoken with on the east coast are opposed to them, as they may prevent a school of tuna from rising to the surface and seeing the full array of spreader bars, jets and ballyhoos running just below the surface; possibly preventing multiple hookups.

I'd rather hook a single tuna once than an entire school zero times.

Taken from the learning section of the semi-defunct SD Fishing buddy board, with all respect:
Albacore are one of the Tunas whose body temperature is warmer by several degree's than the water they swim in. They must always be on the move because they haven't any swim bladder. If they stop moving they'll sink. The way they get a little rest is to swim up sharply from three-hundred feet or deeper to about one-hundred feet. Then they'll take a long downward glide back down to the depth they started from. We suspect this behavior may also have something to do with regulating their body temperature. The same way Yellow-fin
and Big-eye tuna do. They will come to the surface to feed, but not for a long period of time. They have large eye's for feeding
at depths of over a thousand feet. Their eye's don't have eye lids and are very sensitive to light.

So, it seems like fishing at depth isn't a horrible idea, eh?

[Az.monkey]

Thanks for an excellent thread Fred, keep it up.
We often use our down riggers and planners to bring them up