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Boating Discussion Thread, Does anyone sell Ethanol-free gas ? in Boats; [QUOTE=?? fisherman;1475482]Oh man do I beg to differ on that statement. Ethanol has been causing mooch havoc on many newer ...
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Old Sep-11-2009, 09:46 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=?? fisherman;1475482]Oh man do I beg to differ on that statement.

Ethanol has been causing mooch havoc on many newer 4 stroke outboard engines according to many mechanics.

The unknown fisherman[/QUOTE

x2 and i have the 800 dollar bill from johnson marine to back it up!
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Old Sep-11-2009, 09:48 PM   #14
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what did they say the ethanol actually done to your motor?
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Old Sep-11-2009, 09:59 PM   #15
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if ethanol fuel sits very long it absorbs water and begins to seperate.while my boat sat in the off season this happened and when i ran it it took out(clogged)all my fuel injectors on my new 4 stroke yamaha 150.now i have a water seperating fuel filter and run ring free and soltron,this helps but does not solve the problem that ethanol fuel absorbs water and also breaks down many fuel tanks and systems,its not a fantasy its a fact.the worst thing you can do is let your fuel sit,if you constantly use it you wont have many problems but who besides commercial guys can run their boats daily or even weekly?ethanol sucks ass and is another bullshit enviro crap solution that really does no good at all(unless you are a corn farmer,then the government gives you subsidies with our tax dollars).

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Old Sep-11-2009, 10:09 PM   #16
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ok i can see the problem there and your right it absorbs moisture. Theres got to be a way to collect the water before it hits the motor if thats the only problem its is causing i'd think it would be an easy fix. Like i said i'm not a boat mech. and from the midwest just trying to understand what the problem is. If the fuel isnt maintained it dont matter what your running your going to have more problems with regular gas gumming up so its a wash. I keep my gun safe moisture free i'm sure there is a way with the fuel system. just my opinion
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Old Sep-11-2009, 10:41 PM   #17
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well if you can invent the way to solve the problem im sure you can retire quite nicely...

Where's the Logic?

First, the primary job of the Environmental Protection Agency is, dare it be said, to protect our environment. Yet using ethanol actually creates more smog than using regular gas, and the EPA's own attorneys had to admit that fact in front of the justices presiding over the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in 1995 (API v. EPA).
Second, truly independent studies on ethanol, such as those written by Tad Patzek of Berkeley and David Pimentel of Cornell, show that ethanol is a net energy loser. Other studies suggest there is a small net energy gain from it.
Third, all fuels laced with ethanol reduce the vehicle's fuel efficiency, and the E85 blend drops gas mileage between 30% and 40%, depending on whether you use the EPA's fuel mileage standards (fueleconomy.gov) or those of the Dept. of Energy.
Fourth, forget what biofuels have done to the price of foodstuffs worldwide over the past three years; the science seems to suggest that using ethanol increases global warming emissions over the use of straight gasoline. Just these issues should have kept ethanol from being brought back for its fourth run in American history.
Don't let anybody mislead you: The new push to get a 15% ethanol mandate out of Washington is simply to restore profitability to a failed industry. Only this time around those promoting more ethanol in our gas say there's no scientific proof that adding more ethanol will damage vehicles or small gas-powered engines. With that statement they've gone from shilling the public to outright falsehoods, because ethanol-laced gasoline is already destroying engines across the country in ever larger numbers.
Got a Spare $1,000?

Last July was bad enough for motorists on a budget—gasoline prices had shot up to more than $4 a gallon. But for some the pain in the pocketbook was about to get worse. At City Garage in Euless, Tex., for example, the first of numerous future customers brought in an automobile whose fuel pump was shot. A quick diagnosis determined that that particular car had close to 18% ethanol in the fuel. For that unlucky owner, the repairs came to nearly $900. The ethanol fun was just beginning.
City Garage manager Eric Greathouse has found that adding ethanol to the nation's gasoline supply may be a foolish government mandate, but it has an upside he'd rather not deal with. It's supplying his shop with a slow but steady stream of customers whose plastic fuel intakes have been dissolved by the blending of ethanol into our gasoline, or their fuel pumps destroyed. The average cost of repairs is just shy of $1,000.
It gets better.
Autos May 14, 2009, 1:16PM EST text size: TT
The Great Ethanol Scam

(page 2 of 3)
Lifestyle
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Click the image to open in full size.


Scott Morrison is the owner of the City Garage chain in North Texas and he related the story of his technical director's run-in with ethanol; in December he filled up his E85 Flex Fuel Chevy Suburban at the Exxon station in Ovilla, just south of Dallas. His Suburban died on the spot, because even an E85-equipped vehicle will not run on the 100% pure ethanol that Exxon station was pumping that day. In that case it was not Exxon's fault but a mistake at the distribution center, and Exxon (XOM) quickly made good for the cost of repairs.
On Jan. 16 of this year, Lexus ordered a massive recall of certain 2006 to 2008 models, including the GS Series, IS and LS sedans. According to the recall notice, the problem is that "Ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails." In layman's terms, ethanol causes pinpoint leaks in the fuel system; when leaking fuel catches your engine on fire, that's an exciting way to have your insurance company buy your Lexus. Using ethanol will cost Toyota (TM) untold millions.
An Unpublicized Trend

Though the media is ignoring it, one can easily find many stories on BMW (BMWG.DE) blogs relating similar problems with fuel systems damaged by the use of ethanol. Certainly that was the case with Christi Jordan and her 2007 Mini. For weeks it was difficult to start; Moritz BMW in Arlington, Tex., inspected it and found severe carbon buildup inside the engine. On her second trip to the mechanics they decided to test the ethanol content of Christi's fuel and found it was much higher than the federally mandated limit of 10%. This time the fuel pump had been destroyed by the ethanol. The repair bill came to $1,200: As in all cases where vehicles are damaged by ethanol, legally the factory warranty no longer applied.
Jim Keppler, Moritz's fixed operations director, said he's had at least 10 other cases of ethanol poisoning in Minis over the past six months. Christi was one of the lucky ones; Moritz covered her repairs. But there's no telling how many motorists across the nation have had to pay for fuel pumps, or fuel systems, that ethanol damaged. Most were probably unaware of the real culprit behind the breakdown, because virtually no repair shop tests the level of ethanol in the gasoline when these fuel system problems occur.
And there are active lawsuits from boat owners; ethanol broke down the resins in their fiberglass gas tanks, destroying their marine engines. Additionally, those who deal in small gas engines for lawnmowers, edgers, and weedeaters have quickly learned that, as Briggs & Stratton's (BGG) Web site warns, "Ethanol-blended gasoline can attract moisture, which leads to separation and formation of acids during storage. Acidic gasoline can damage the fuel system of an engine while in storage. B&S strongly recommends removing ethanol-blended fuels from engine during storage."
Like motorists, if landscaping tool owners put gasoline with more than 10% ethanol in their small engines, that immediately voids any factory warranties. In the case of the Lexus recall, using just a 10% ethanol blend was found to be destroying many of these engines also.
Another Government-Mandated Mistake

It now appears that in just a few years since the government forced ethanol use on the country, engine and fuel system failures caused by ethanol are causing major damage to more and more new and used vehicles. This means the hapless owners are not only paying for snake oil in lower fuel efficiency and more smog, but pay again when it damages their vehicles and lawn mowers.
We seem to have forgotten, but the promise of turning over farmland for fuel production was to reduce our nation's demand for imported crude.
Autos May 14, 2009, 1:16PM EST text size: TT
The Great Ethanol Scam

(page 3 of 3)
Lifestyle



But until this massive economic slowdown, as Gusher of Lies (PublicAffairs, 2008) author Robert Bryce pointed out, even while the ethanol mandate was being ramped up we were increasing our imports of foreign oil.
Translation: The entire politically stated purpose of using ethanol had already been proven to be a false one before the program even got fully under way.
No surprise there. The premise that ethanol could give America the freedom to one day stop importing oil has always been fraudulent. Another fun fact: If we outlawed gasoline and diesel, thereby removing every last car, truck and SUV from our highways—no vehicles anywhere on any road in the country—America would still have to import oil because we would still use more crude than domestic production can supply.
Why is that? Crude oil is also used to make fertilizers, aviation fuel, home heating oil, and many other products. Not to mention polyester suits for car salesmen.
Comment Now, Public!

Pushed into it by the corn growers' and ethanol refiners' lobbying organizations, today the EPA is starting to go through the public comment phase on increasing the level of ethanol in our gasoline from 10% to 15%. Time and time again we have heard from these groups, who now claim that there is zero scientific evidence that a 15% blend of ethanol would do any damage whatsoever if the mandate for ethanol were raised. As with all statements made by vested interests, few outsiders have actually taken the time to look and find out whether this statement was true.
In fact, it's false.
Not one mechanic I've spoken with said they would be comfortable with a 15% blend of ethanol in their personal car. However, most suggest that if the government moves the ethanol mandate to 15%, it will be the dawn of a new golden age for auto mechanics' income.
One last thought: Most individuals who have had to repair their fuel systems in recent years never had the gasoline tested to see if the ethanol percentage might be the problem. Today most repair shops and new-car dealers are still not testing for ethanol blends. They're simply repairing the vehicles and sending their unhappy and less wealthy customers on their way. But, where dealer and repair shops are testing the gasoline, ethanol is becoming one of the leading culprits for the damage.
Sadly, when a truly bad idea is exposed today, Washington's answer is to double-down on the bet, mandate more of the same, and make the problem worse. Only this time around motorists will be able to gauge the real cost of ethanol when it comes time to fix their personal cars
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Old Sep-11-2009, 10:51 PM   #18
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Wow not sure where your reading this crap but WOW the only problem with eth is it costs to damn much to make. I put on 40,000 a year in my truck and have never had a problem. Most of what your reading is some guys hype trying to make you believe what he believes. Im not saying its going to save the world BUT i deal with the APCD every day with NOX limits and CO limits ( there a pain in the ass ) but the alc. isnt going to hurt your new car or truck
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Old Sep-12-2009, 09:20 AM   #19
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Brad,Lay off the crack pipe!Who here is talking about ethanol hurting your car or truck?And didnt i say that if you run your boat regularly you probably wouldnt have problems?The problem is when boats sit between uses normally and the fuel absorbs water.Punch in ethanol in your search engine and read a little...
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Old Sep-12-2009, 10:07 AM   #20
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and i agreed with you and can understand why that would be a problem all i said is there has to be a way to absorb the moisture to help you guys out.
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Old Sep-12-2009, 11:39 AM   #21
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Wow not sure where your reading this crap but WOW the only problem with eth is it costs to damn much to make. I put on 40,000 a year in my truck and have never had a problem. Most of what your reading is some guys hype trying to make you believe what he believes. Im not saying its going to save the world BUT i deal with the APCD every day with NOX limits and CO limits ( there a pain in the ass ) but the alc. isnt going to hurt your new car or truck
If you really dont believe that Ethanol gas is causing some major problems with boaters, then you have some serious research to do. I know, as I ended up getting a new engine because of it (paid for by Yamaha, as they know of the problems). Ethanol can really cause some major problems if you arent really careful.

Too bad you dont live here in San Diego, as I would have you contact Robbie Gordon, or better yet, go down to his shop and he could show you some serious visuals of what this stuff does.

Comparing it with cars is crazy though, as boats have an open vented system, wheras cars are pretty much enclosed, not to mention the fact that cars run much more frequently than your typical private boat.

Do a little research and you should quickly see whats happening with ethanol & outboards.

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Old Sep-12-2009, 11:44 AM   #22
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thats like i pointed out im from the midwest and im not familiar with the boating problem thats why i was asking questions about it to get an idea about what the problem might be. And i do agree i can see a problem with wetter fuel but cant see any other problems with it so far. Any insight on what it actually does i'd love to know never hurts to learn more
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Old Sep-14-2009, 10:52 AM   #23
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how to remove ethanol(not recommended)
add 1 galon water to each 10 gallons fuel
mix well, let settle, drain 2 gallons water /ethanol blend from bottom of container.
run feul through a water separating fuel filter,
run fuel, hope you got all the water out .
option 2 burn fuel, ethanol goes away at same time
.
option 3 buy "av gas" expensive.


option 4 pemex?

option ?? know anyone who works at gasoline refinery?
Or you can just update parts as they fail. Most "Marine" parts are interchangeable with Automotive versions, check if USCG ok's the mix.
If outboard manufacturers are not keeping pace, then pressure the parts guy at your dealer. CA is a big market and a few other states mandate Ethanol as well.

It's here and not going away.

DG

Mexico is not an option. Imports and exports of gasoline from/to Mex are not allowed to any beneficial extent. Penalties are stiff.
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Old Oct-08-2009, 11:50 PM   #24
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You got it wrong pal

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Originally Posted by Modlinb2000 View Post
what did they say the ethanol actually done to your motor?
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Originally Posted by Modlinb2000 View Post
unless you have a really old motor ethanol wont hurt a thing its more in the old motors that might swell o rings but its way to much hype about it and might do damage that comes from the oil companys making billions
I'm sorry but reading your logic is killing me, you no nothing of what your talking about but yet you spout off, I no first hand what a tank full, not quite a tank because I drained 20 gallons out of it and got rid of it.
Calif. has yet to require 10% corn liquor as yet, and half the fuel station don't list it contains it on there pumps, there's been reports of some stations having up to 30% ethanol in fuel.
I have a 96 Mercury EFI 2 stoke that got juiced from a Pilot station in Castaic Lake area, and I ran for a week and noted problems right away, but didn't act fast enough, my fuel tank is made of cross link poly, better to deal with ethanol then a fiberglass or aluminum or stainless.
But what it did was break up the aged deposits of vanish on the bottom of the tank and pass it thou the fuel system, Ate the fuel line and primer bulb, passed small chunks of plastic from the fuel line inner liner, into the fuel pump, water separator filter and into the vapor housing fuel pump and on into the fuel rails and injectors... Done... ran roughly 5 gallons and thats the damage done.
This crap will cause severe economic destruction yet to be seen.
The costs the lower class and middle class will be paying out for repairs will break them, they all can't re-power or go down to the dealer and get a new car.
there are organizations as noted in one of the replies above, Ethanol Free Premium Coalition
The only thing we can do is join these org. and complain.
Going to the small airports to beg for a couple gallons, lol , we did that back in the day when they took away our leaded fuel, and going to Mex is a little dicey to.
Where going to have to stock up on Stabil ethanol treatment and just use the fuel required for the days use of the motor, cause I'm afraid the crap is here to stay and when they have seemly intelligent people like yourself buffaloed into thinking that nothing is wrong with the "E" well were all done for.
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