Mex navy ordeal

[fishnfool]

Originally Posted by captainkelly

Heres the black & white: A boat was stopped for a routine inspection, the required papers were not on board (permits for boat & skip) , Navy allowed a boat to bring papers out....(Papers found in order,exept skippers license)....there were still ID issues, navy decides to take the whole show to Ensenada and turn over to Proper Authorities...(Port Capt.) boat being towed sinks in route. Upon arrival after routine phys exam and declaration,all are released.
At this moment EVERY skipper here in San Quintin ,commercial & sport who do not already have their Permit/License are in Ensenada Taking the proper courses for their "ticket" (Including 2 of my sons). I know eveyone will be making sure all their papers are in order and up to par, No one here wants this to happen again. Just like in the USA there are rules and regs for vessels at sea and i know that if your boat gets boarded by Homeland Security and you dont have your vessel permits or correct ID......you will probably get escorted too.

Originally Posted by wils

Was this an attempt to excuse Standard Operating Procedures in Mexico?

Is this an attempt to stir shit? Kelley has a pretty good reputation going for himself. I think he is simply stating what happened as he knows it from first hand experience. After all he is there, and we are not. Seems like to me a couple guys let something expire, and took a chance. Maybe they are booked because of the outstanding fishing they have had down there recently, or maybe they just forgot. Who knows. It happens. There are plenty of people in Avalon every week taking care of fines for this or that infraction. I checked my Mexican license Sunday, and found that it had just recently expired. Wouldn't have been a good thing for me to be stopped if I had been out there. Thanks for the update Kelley.

[juliomeza]

kelly good and short story, TRUE good and safe if all guides take a seminar
i am sure the Mexican Navy will give a boat back to Tito there are allready lots of authorities taking care of this incident good response of all the SQ fishing community supporting Tito still this is a good chance to remember while fishing mexican waters to have a fishing license, take care of limits and restricted areas and species

[wils]

Originally Posted by fishnfool

Is this an attempt to stir shit? .

Well lets see here, fishnfool.

The mex navy sinks a "boat for hire"....in part due to proper paperwork not being in order. Accidental? Does it matter? If the boat had the proper paperwork onboard, like I assume it was required to have, it never would have been in the position to be sunk.

as a result, "At this moment EVERY skipper here in San Quintin ,commercial & sport who do not already have their Permit/License are in Ensenada Taking the proper courses for their "ticket" (Including 2 of my sons). I know eveyone will be making sure all their papers are in order and up to par"

It took this "episode" to get mexicans to get their paperwork up-to-date? Commercial and SPORT skippers are NOW taking "proper courses"?

and I'm attempting "to stir shit".

DARN STRAIGHT I'M STIRRIN' SHIT! Aint it special that it took the accidental sinking of a boat to get the "for hire" boats to get their own paperwork and proper courses in order.

[fishnfool]

I'm not trying to argue. It seemed to me you were calling Kelley's statement a cover up for something when it appears to me he is giving straight info including his own boys needed to get some things straight. Sounds honest to me. As for the event that started this thing it seems to me the Mexican Navy was doing there job and didn't do it very well...sank a boat. I think our Navy or Coast Guard would have done a similar thing...hopefully without sinking the boat...but accidents do happen, and even more so with inexperienced personnel attempting to do something they are not well trained on...not saying that any of the parties involved were.

I believe the original thread stated that the Americans didn't have the proper ID on them but were allowed to have someone bring it out to them...not a requirement of the Navy to allow that. The whole situation sucks for everyone, and I am glad it all turned out ok with no injuries to any people. I sympathize with the guys who lost their gear. It would be nice if these guys get some gear replaced when it's all said and done. How likely is that...I don't know.

I'll just say it sounds very plausible to me that there were warnings, and now enforcement. I can think of several things that are familiar to me in regards to that. Seatbelt law, cameras at intersections, and soon to come hands free phones only while driving to name a few. Bottom line it appears that everyone who has an issue is taking care of it and hopefully there won't be anymore problems of this nature. Maybe I'm to much of an optimist but that's my take. Thanks for indulging me.

[captaindorado]

WOW WE. Up here in the US if the captain does not have his paper work in place they get a fine, and mind you, its not cheap. But they dont sink your boat with ski masks on, or do they?

[Mo Betta]

WTF is the big deal here? Kelly made it very clear as to what happened. If you cant handle the fact that in Mexico things work a little different, dont go. If you do go, you have to understand things like this happen sometimes and its part of the adventure.

What is not part of the adventure is the shit thats happening in TJ and Rosarito. If they dont get a handle on that, I wont even drive through there....We decided not to go to Puerto Nuevo for Lobster.

[Eye Problem]

I dont care for the whole ordeal. Until you live through one of these situations, all you can do is speculate. Losing all your gear and being detained because of the local captain not having the right paperwork,is bullshit. The locals calling out anyone who is less than enthusiastic about going down there, is bullshit. Americans are spending money, trusting, no, expecting, these individuals to be licensed,and in compliance. Americans are spreading the word for these charters about all the fish they caught etc... they are trusting the charters are fishing legally, and wont be detained for the sake of being Americans.But the real issue is, because of one incident by the Mexican Navy, it may take a year or more for the local economy to recover from the Navy's lack of humility. Regardless, the action of the Navy only adds to the situation of the bad press coming from that area. The news is spreading faster than the avian flu about the issues in Baja and I'll bet none of the locals care for this too much, and defend their lively hood by bashing any other opinion. I dont blame you guys for trying to defend your livelyhood, but call a spade a spade for heaven sakes. Se habla español.

[chava27]

You know what. I was on the boat. We had the fishing licences on board that Tito had provided for us. Like Kelly said in his above Statement "Navy allowed a boat to bring papers out....(Papers found in order,exept skippers license)....there were still ID issues" We all did have valid ID's on our persons. Two of us didn't have passports (myself included but I did have my military ID from The US NAVY.) They have been filed but not receieved yet. By the way we were in the ocean... How many of you take your passpoet with you when your out to sea.... Example if you go fishing out of San Deigo in to Mexican Waters do you have your passport with you...After all you are in forigen waters did you enter illigally? I don't have a problem with the navy doing what they had to do...but when we were on board they didn't tell us what was going on. If we were being arrested, going to be fined, going to court nothing. And then getting to Ensenada and saying there is going to be no fine or files charged yea i was pissed. I myself lost 3 custom wrap rods, 3 reels, and about a 200 dollar tackle box for a total of about 1300 - 1400 dollars. For the navy to not let us bring our gear on board when asked was uncalled for. And as for not going down there I most likey will. Its a wonderful place with great people. Well there is my 2 cents errr $1400 dollars worth. By the way you could check out the pix for the ordeal on my website at
michael's photos - powered by SmugMug

Best Wishes

Chava27

[wils]

Originally Posted by fishnfool

I'm not trying to argue.

Bottom line it appears that everyone who has an issue is taking care of it and hopefully there won't be anymore problems of this nature. Maybe I'm to much of an optimist but that's my take.

Thanks for indulging me.

My apologies for replying in my abrasive manner. But as you have probably noticed by now, I didn't major in "sweet talking". Sorry.

If you look at the total picture over this past summer, we have been told that everything is fine and dandy in baja....
as long as you travel in a pre-scheduled caravan
as long as you dont travel at night
as long as you dont stop
as long as you double-check that the boat you charter has its proper paperwork onboard.

did someone mention that the skippers are NOW taking "proper courses" for their jobs?

There are more fishermen than just me looking for an alternative to san diego. SD LR may seem a weeeeeeeee bit over-priced but I dont have to even consider "all of the above". Boats are operational 99.99% of the time The crews make sure that their paperwork - and the fishermans paperwork - are all in order before leaving the dock. (And they are up front with you when they reach into your pocket......Heck, if you're going to bend me over, be honest about it. OK?)

This latest incident, and the subsequent myriad of "this is how it is" excuses, will keep me from looking at the north and west part of Baja as an alternative for the immediate future.

As for your optimism about no future issues of this sort in Mexico? I was as optimistic as yourself...25 years ago when the same things were happening. Maybe they'll get it right this time. Hopefully, they will.

[Gil Marlin]

Wils we'll all miss you down there...

Chava, did they at least give you a ride back???

[chava27]

No they didn't need to give us a ride back to SQ. Two people in the group didnt go fishing that day, and when they found out that we were suppose to be in Ensenada at 8am on Wednesday morning the hauled ass out of SQ that night and headed to Ensenada where we arrived at 6pm and got the hell out of baja to get to work that night at 11pm

[jbarto]

Originally Posted by Eye Problem

I dont care for the whole ordeal. Until you live through one of these situations, all you can do is speculate. Losing all your gear and being detained because of the local captain not having the right paperwork,is bullshit. The locals calling out anyone who is less than enthusiastic about going down there, is bullshit. Americans are spending money, trusting, no, expecting, these individuals to be licensed,and in compliance. Americans are spreading the word for these charters about all the fish they caught etc... they are trusting the charters are fishing legally, and wont be detained for the sake of being Americans.But the real issue is, because of one incident by the Mexican Navy, it may take a year or more for the local economy to recover from the Navy's lack of humility. Regardless, the action of the Navy only adds to the situation of the bad press coming from that area. The news is spreading faster than the avian flu about the issues in Baja and I'll bet none of the locals care for this too much, and defend their lively hood by bashing any other opinion. I dont blame you guys for trying to defend your livelyhood, but call a spade a spade for heaven sakes. Se habla español.

I agree with you 100% Greg. I couldn't have said it more PC than you did.